Pcc recoil?

[Shooter212]

I just finished putting my pcc together. I haven't shot one before or anyone else's and I know being blow back the recoil will be very different. But it feels really weird I feel like I am getting trigger slap like a ak and that it has more recoil slamming closed then backwards. I guess my question is the trigger slap a sign the action is opening to fast. I am running kaw valley bcg heavy buffer and 308 carbine spring. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You need to lighten the buffer and spring if you are running reloads in the 125-140PF range. Try a 223 spring first then a buffer in the 4.5-5.4oz range. That should make things feel a lot better. Thanks, Eric

[Flatland Shooter]

What power factor loads are you running?

 

Eric has it right.  The lighter the load, the lighter a buffer/spring combo you can use.  

 

Consider deciding on what bullet and powder charge you want to use then tailor the buffer and spring to the load.

 

My match loads are 132 PF.  I played with different weight buffers from the standard carbine buffers (3 ounce) to PSA factory 9mm buffers (5.2 ounce).  For springs I tried both .308 springs and .223 springs.

 

In my case I settled on the 5.2 ounce buffer with .223 springs.  My bolt weighs 15.2 ounces.  This combo gives me the least muzzle movement and works well with my trigger.

 

Bill

Edited May 5, 2017 by Flatland Shooter

[jtrump]

On 5/4/2017 at 7:29 PM, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: You need to lighten the buffer and spring if you are running reloads in the 125-140PF range. Try a 223 spring first then a buffer in the 4.5-5.4oz range. That should make things feel a lot better. Thanks, Eric

 

Hi again Eric,

 

Old thread but thinking of tinkering with springs.   Have been running the Blitzkrieg buffer in my GMR-13, with the .308 carbine spring,  it feels pretty good.  Curious if I could achieve even better results with a .223 spring? and if so which one?

[L9X25]

Mine felt better with the standard JP .223 Carbine spring, but my target is about 130PF.  Some people that shoot factory, or higher power factors, like the .308 Carbine best.

Edited March 7, 2018 by L9X25

[MikieM]

It's the total weight of the bolt and buffer that you want to consider because they move as one inside the gun. Although not by much, bolts have different weights from manufacturer to manufacturer.

My KAW Valley bolt (14.5 ounces) and buffer (6 ounces) works well for me with a Sprinco (blue) enhanced power spring using 130 PF loads. Pretty much in line with Eric, Flats, and L9.

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I think the total weight of the buffer and bolt is best in the 18-21 ounce range. Then you can work on the spring that will work for your loads. I am now using 124 grain bullets at 131-134PF. It cycles quickly and the hits on target are great. Thanks, Eric

[spininfirec]

2 hours ago, jtrump said:

 

Hi again Eric,

 

Old thread but thinking of tinkering with springs.   Have been running the Blitzkrieg buffer in my GMR-13, with the .308 carbine spring,  it feels pretty good.  Curious if I could achieve even better results with a .223 spring? and if so which one?

I am running the blitzkrig as well.  I like it.  Im currently messing with loads and trying to lighten the rifle.  I like a heavy 223 but I noticed with recoil being different with the 9mm, that is not a good idea like with 223.  

 

What weight of bullet are you running?

[cking]

Look for how far you eject empty's and angle. If throwing at 1 or 2 oclock too much spring. If more than 15 feet too little spring. Just start cutting coils off the springs till you get good ejection and little nose dive. Also play with quarter spacers if your not running a 9mm buffer. 

[jtrump]

3 hours ago, L9X25 said:

Mine felt better with the standard JP .223 Carbine spring, but my target is about 130PF.  Some people that shoot factory, or higher power factors, like the .308 Carbine best.

I cant seem to find out how much my JP 9mm enhanced BCG weighs,  but I did find the weight of the blitzkrieg buffer.    I normally like to run around 130-133pf.   I have been running 115g coated bullets, and am now switching to  125g coated because I got a killer deal from a friend.   I still plan to run the same power factor with this load as well.   I'm just thinking that with this power factor maybe I have a little to much spring and I could possibly drop to a 223 spring.  

 

 

[Neomet]

I am with L9.  I found the .223 produced less recoil and more importantly less dot bounce.  Don't ask me why, I'm just here for the ride.  :-)

[Aircooled6racer]

29 minutes ago, jtrump said:

I cant seem to find out how much my JP 9mm enhanced BCG weighs,  but I did find the weight of the blitzkrieg buffer.    I normally like to run around 130-133pf.   I have been running 115g coated bullets, and am now switching to  125g coated because I got a killer deal from a friend.   I still plan to run the same power factor with this load as well.   I'm just thinking that with this power factor maybe I have a little to much spring and I could possibly drop to a 223 spring.  

 

 

Hello: The standard JP 9mm bolt weights 13.4817 ounces, at least mine does. The green spring I use in the JP captured buffer is 13.5 lb. A stock AR15 223 spring is about 12-14 lbs. Not sure on the 308 spring since I don't have one anymore. You are going to like the 125 grain bullets more than the 115's. Thanks, Eric

[mstamper]

I handle the recoil on my Diamondback DB9R using a Blitzkrieg buffer and a JP 308 buffer spring. I am using the stock bolt and shooting 124 grain freedom munitions plated rounds. I have not chrono'd the rounds but they state they are 1060 fps from a pistol. This setup is very accurate for my pcc. 

 

The stock buffer and spring had quite a snap on both ends. The hit to the shoulder was very noticeable as well as the RTB. That is almost non existent now.

[MikieM]

Going by the 1060 FPS number you are at 131 power factor according to JBM's calculator.

Since the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer is at the 5 ounce mark and your bolt probably weighs around 14 to 15 ounces, then with the .308 spring everything should be working pretty well.

As an experiment, you might think about going down to the next less powerful spring and see what happens. 

[mstamper]

5 minutes ago, MikieM said:

Going by the 1060 FPS number you are at 131 power factor according to JBM's calculator.

Since the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer is at the 5 ounce mark and your bolt probably weighs around 14 to 15 ounces, then with the .308 spring everything should be working pretty well.

As an experiment, you might think about going down to the next less powerful spring and see what happens. 

curious, if I did go down in spring what are you expecting to be the result?

An even lighter felt recoil? I already feel like the bolt is just getting back into battery fast enough now. Lightening the spring would slow the bolt down more wouldn't it?

[MikieM]

17 minutes ago, mstamper said:

curious, if I did go down in spring what are you expecting to be the result?

An even lighter felt recoil? I already feel like the bolt is just getting back into battery fast enough now. Lightening the spring would slow the bolt down more wouldn't it?

 

Correct. The only reason I mention it is because there's a sweet spot where the bolt/buffer is returning to battery too fast (very heavy spring), and a bolt/buffer returning too slow as when using a much weaker spring.

Both weak, and heavy, springs can be problematic. The weak spring can cause the B/B to hit the end of the tube excessively hard, and the heavy spring can return the B/B too hard into the barrel. Our goal, in my opinion, is to find something in the middle.

[mstamper]

7 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

Correct. The only reason I mention it is because there's a sweet spot where the bolt/buffer is returning to battery too fast (very heavy spring), and a bolt/buffer returning too slow as when using a much weaker spring.

Both weak, and heavy, springs can be problematic. The weak spring can cause the B/B to hit the end of the tube excessively hard, and the heavy spring can return the B/B too hard into the barrel. Our goal, in my opinion, is to find something in the middle.

MikieM,

I'm willing to try it if you want to send me a lighter spring, HAHAHA.

Honestly, I am happy with the setup as is. To experiment now, even though springs are inexpensive, is a cost I don't really want to do. BUT, like I said, If you want to send me a spring to try out and report back here on the forum I would be happy to do so. IF I like it, I'd pay you for the spring.

[MikieM]

Just now, mstamper said:

MikieM,

I'm willing to try it if you want to send me a lighter spring, HAHAHA.

Honestly, I am happy with the setup as is. To experiment now, even though springs are inexpensive, is a cost I don't really want to do. BUT, like I said, If you want to send me a spring to try out and report back here on the forum I would be happy to do so. IF I like it, I'd pay you for the spring.

 

As it is I'm using that very spring, myself. It's the Sprinco enhanced power (blue), and it's the only one I've got.

However, if you're happy with the one you have then by all means use it. There comes a time when a person has to stop experimenting and start shooting.

Good luck.

[longbeard]

Anyone running 147 grain bullets out of a 16" barrel?  I've been experimenting with loads and springs.  I use Titegroup, and a 130pf load with a 147 is very sluggish.  It's like 2.6 grains or something.  I think 3.0 grains is about the minimum for decent feel, but the pf is pretty high out of the full length barrel.  125 grain bullets are easier to get to pf, but take more powder and therefore more snap.  I like about 125/3.5 for these.

 

I'm currently just playing with what feels best, and what will run in both my ULW and my full length barrel.  Curious what others see with regards to felt recoil and their pf.

[L9X25]

25 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

There comes a time when a person has to stop experimenting and start shooting.

Good luck.

 

That is a true statement.  Most of these guns are very shootable, just the way they come out of the box.  It's just that tinkerers have to tinker ... it's what we do.  

We find something good and attempt to make it great.  

 

I was happy with my gun and the .308 Carbine spring, it functioned perfectly and felt pretty good.  It was only when I tried the .223 spring that I realized it was better.

I have worked on the gun and loads until I am satisfied that I have found the sweet spot for how I like it to shoot and feel.  I have reached Mikie's point of "stop experimenting and start shooting" because the gun is good enough.  Sadly, I have been unable to find a good deal on a batch of youth and skill to purchase.  

[MikieM]

7 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

 

Sadly, I have been unable to find a good deal on a batch of youth and skill to purchase.  

 

Copy that. 

[longbeard]

+1 on the just shooting.  

[mstamper]

59 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

Copy that. 

oh to be 25 years younger and have the equipment and knowledge we have now! LOL

 

I could be a GM shooter, NOT!