Flatland Shooter Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Item 13 of Appendix D8 allows flashlights and laser on PCC. https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2016/PCC Appendix D8_Sep2016.pdf Does anyone use a laser in "daylight" competition. Bill Link to comment
Sarge Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I think FB is where I read Mike Foley used a laser exclusively at a major match on a FEW stages. Other than that used optic. He could probably elaborate on when and where a laser would be effective. I believe general consensus was optic is faster than a laser in the vast majority of scenarios. I think it would be pretty fast on a close range hoser! Link to comment
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I was very disappointed with the extent to which direct sunlight washes out the laser, almost completely. I have the S&W M&P Compact 9mm and you can barely see the laser out to maybe ten yards in direct sunlight - depends on the surface of the target, also. Even a little cloud cover, and the laser is great ... I'd love to try it in competition, but it would have to be a lot brighter .. Maybe on a rainy day Link to comment
Flatland Shooter Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Where I thought lasers would be helpful would be on very close moving shots and bending around tight corners, especially on the weak side. So far I've not seen anyone use a laser in a match and I wondered if a laser is even visible in bright daylight. My experience with lasers is limited to those little ones you use to tease cats. Thanks. Bill Link to comment
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said: I wondered if a laser is even visible in bright daylight. Very faint for first 7-10 yards - after that invisible, to my eye. Even at 7 yards, I wouldn't want to be speed shooting using a laser, in bright sunlight. Link to comment
Flatland Shooter Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Guess I'll wait until they market a laser that can burn holes in a metric target at 10 yards. Bill Link to comment
bobert1 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I will have to try that next week. Link to comment
ChuckS Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) I was with Foley at Area 2. It worked well in some lighting conditions and in hard leans where it is difficult to get a good cheek weld. Edited March 18, 2017 by ChuckS Link to comment
Neomet Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Chuck, I assume he used it when he crushed stage 8? I'm still trying to find vid of that run!! Link to comment
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 3/18/2017 at 4:50 PM, Flatland Shooter said: Guess I'll wait until they market a laser that can burn holes in a metric target at 10 yards. Current lasers will do that, unless the sun is out ..... Link to comment
bockerSV Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I work for a laser sight manufacturer, some of the issue is there are restrictions on the maximum output of laser you can sell to the general public, under 5mW. In really bright daylight they can be difficult to see, going with a green laser helps because the human eye sees the color green better than any other color in the light spectrum. I could see a laser helping in some of the awkward positions you might get into while shooting a rifle in a pistol match, leaning out to the support hand side of kneeling and shooting come to mind. Pretty much any position which makes it difficult to look through your red dot you could use a laser to supplement. I'm not trying to push my employer here because I have a pretty obvious bias but if you guys have any questions on laser for this kind of thing, feel free to ask. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
bockerSV Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Also, just because you can build a laser all the way to 5mW doesn't mean they can all be made up to that limit. Very compact lasers (less space for batteries) usually are not as high of output as larger rail mounted lasers. If you were adding a laser to a handgun the compact size is something you can trade off for some brightness but with a rifle you have much more space to work with. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
ChuckS Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Neomet said: Chuck, I assume he used it when he crushed stage 8? I'm still trying to find vid of that run!! Yeah, that was our first stage on Saturday morning. The laser really stood out on the poppers on 10 also. Link to comment
Flatland Shooter Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 hours ago, bockerSV said: I work for a laser sight manufacturer, some of the issue is there are restrictions on the maximum output of laser you can sell to the general public, under 5mW. But we aren't the general public. WE ARE PCC SHOOTERS! in the words of Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor, we need "MORE POWER". Link to comment
bockerSV Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Too bad it has no mass, moving at the speed of light, it wouldn't take much to make power factor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Neomet Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 hours ago, ChuckS said: Yeah, that was our first stage on Saturday morning. The laser really stood out on the poppers on 10 also. That makes sense. 8 was in a bay that is kinda down in a hole anyway. Link to comment
Shepard Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I've tried it a bit. I found that on those extreme weak hand, off balance positions it may be viable but it wasn't as easy as I'd hoped. Putting the laser on the target while leaning out weak hand isn't as easy as I'd thought it would be. Tracking the laser is much harder than your dot or sights as well. But, I'm finding that my weak hand shooting is coming along much faster than I thought it would and it won't be long before I can transition to weak hand 10 yards and in with little drop off in speeed/accuracy so I'm not going to spend any more time on the laser. Link to comment
robertg5322 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Recently saw a guy use a laser on a classifier, Can You Count. Never brought the gun to his shoulder. Wicked fast time. Hit factor was like 11. He also nailed his reloads, so you still gotta shoot the gun, but was fun to watch. Link to comment
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 4 hours ago, robertg5322 said: saw a guy use a laser on a classifier Was it in direct sunlight on the targets? Link to comment
robertg5322 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 17 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Was it in direct sunlight on the targets? Actually around just before sunset. Sun was behind the targets. Cat said it was a cheap $30.00 unit from Amazon. Distance was only about 6' or so, whatever the distance for Can You Count is. Laser was bright, even in the sandy berm. Link to comment
robertg5322 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I doubt it's a viable alternative, as stated it's hard to track the laser unless you've practiced it extensively. It was cool to watch though. We also do night matches and they shine there (pun intended). Link to comment
wgj3 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) I used one at Optic Nats and A6. There are only a few situations as mentioned above where I think they are actually helpful. And, I'm not 100% sure how much they really help. I can say for certain that they require practice to be used effectively. Edited April 23, 2017 by wgj3 Link to comment
UFO Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I used mine for the first time today in bright sunlight and it worked great. Guys behind me when I shot were able to see it on a target 35yds away. I use a Vortex SpitFire which has a 2moa dot and 2 outer rings. I can co-witness the laser through the scope and use it for the 10 - 15yd shots. Helps with any holdover you might need for up close. Link to comment
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, UFO said: I used mine in bright sunlight and it worked great. Guys behind me saw it on a target 35yds away. I use a Vortex SpitFire Either your Vortex is a LOT brighter than my laser - or the sun was out but the targets were in the shade. If bright sunshine is shining directly onto the target, my dot fades badly, but if the targets are shaded, I can still see the dot. Link to comment
bockerSV Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 A laser definitely wouldn't be an option for an alternative for a red dot in this game but can definitely be a supplement to your normal sight in a few situations that have been outlined. With the restrictions on how powerful a laser you can sell to the public in the US, it would be very difficult to make something with a high enough output to be able to use in really bright daylight on targets out to some of the distances we shoot in this sport. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
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