Idpa State Championship Questions

[postal]

I'm looking for feedback from other IDPA shooters what they feel makes for a memoriable match ....other than winning their class! Thanks.

What makes it more memorable ?, what is it you take home with you?

A Trophy , I was really surprised at my first state championship to see a little fifteen inch high trophy, I get those at local matches, you would figure a state championship would fork out a few bucks more than a nine or ten dollar trophy, don’t get me wrong I am glad to get what I got, but even when other people see it, I get the same reaction

A nice dual column trophy cost around five bucks more

As far as pictures go you do not need a professional these days , just a nice digital camera, mine takes awesome pictures and good quicktime movies, I have taken a few for a local clubs web site they turn out great

[ChuckS]

asuming your are talking about Norco. just came back from there, stayed up near the airport. Onatrio we stayed at the Marriott Residence very nice. About 15 20 mins too range

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Prado is about 3 miles east of Norco, near the 71 and 83. Ontario would work for that as well.

[rwmagnus]

Quality, innovative stages are the biggest factor to me.

Try to avoid stages based on the same old stuff.  For example, I'm very bored with stages built around either of these two over used frameworks:

1) "Engage T1-T3 with 2 shots each in tactical order while moving to cover and then from cover engage T4-T6 with 2 shots each in tactial priority."

2) "Engage T1-T3 with 2 shots each in tactical sequence while retreating to cover and then from cover engage T4-T6 with 2 shots each in tactial priority."

Stages that use props to guide the shooter toward the "intent" of the stage designer.  There should be no question of when or where you can do what.  If you don't want it to happen then setup the stage so it can't happen.  This takes extra time but it cuts down on walkthrough questions and judgement calls.

One of the best things that one of our local clubs did was to create an "electric eye" activator that can be used to trip movers and other dynamic stage items.  This activator trips when you go through the invisible beam which makes things seem like they are "just happening".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

100% agree. I'd love to get more info on making that "electric eye" activator. I've made several pressure plate activators but the type you're describing can be used in alot of different ways. If you can direct me to any info on it I'd be a happy camper.

[ChuckS]

Quality, innovative stages are the biggest factor to me.

--- snip ---

1) "Engage T1-T3 with 2 shots each in tactical order while moving to cover and then from cover engage T4-T6 with 2 shots each in tactial priority."

--- snip ---

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vincent,

Just for clarification, what is "tactical order" ?

rwmagnus,

They had an "Electric Eye" at the 2003 USPSA Area 2 match. You charged up some stairs and crossed the beam which started a mover at the end of the bay. The only problem I saw is that they had set a fixed target to the left of the stairs and sometimes ejected brass from semi-autos tripped the target when they were engaging the target on the left. As long as no stray stuff can trigger the activator, they are pretty nice. I still think that the platform that you step on is the best if your stage can be activated by a tug on a cable. Check out Pressure Pad Activator Box I am not sure how you range is equipped but most of the ones by me do not have electricity near by or at all!

TIA,

Chuck

[vincent]

ChuckS,

"Tactical Order" is the same as "Tactical Priority". Both terms were used in the older rulebooks. In my area Tactical Order was the term most often used in stage descriptions.

rwmagnus,

The club that uses the "electric eye" activators is PSC-IDPA in Friendswood, Texas (the home of the Texas State Match):

http://www.cottonfamily.com/psc-idpa/index.htm

Charles Cotton is the webmaster and he can probably provide more information on the devices. His email contact information is available on the website. The activators were designed by Randy Allen and are locally referred to as an "Allen actuator" so I would reference that name when you contact him.

BTW, the activators run off of car/boat batteries so no electricity at the range is required. I haven't seen one go off from a piece of brass but Charles would have more info on the sensitivity.

[vincent]

Another thing I really like to see at State and National level matches is consistency on rule interpretations between stages. We all know that the IDPA rules can be interpreted differently by different SO's. It is a fact of life that shooters must deal with when they compete in IDPA. However the SO's at a given match should be able get together before they shoot the stages and determine how they are going to interpret the various rules at that specific match. Then those interpretations should be used for ALL stages of the match. It is always better to re-work a stage than to force a difference in rule interpretation between one or more stages in a single match. Every SO and the MD should be on the same page so the shooter get's the same interpretations from all the SO's and calls are decided by the MD the same as well. It is very important that the SO's and match staff take the time to walk through the stages and make these decisions BEFORE they shoot the stages for score. Otherwise they sometimes fall into the "We had to shoot it this way so now all the shooters have to as well" pitfall.

[DrKyle1]

I am relatively new to the sport - started last fall, and I have been to 2 different regional matches. One thing that I would like to see is venders. I am there to shoot but lets face it... there is down time! I would love to see some local or even national sponsors showing off their stuff. Tables or tents... something. Am I in the minority on this one? I am on the committee for Fiesta '06 in San Antonio and these are some ideas that I am bringing to the table what do ya'll think? Also I would like to have 1 or 2 food vendors as it seems that providing food to the shooters is a PITA for the staff of the event. My vote is that the RO/SO and event staff get a free meal & drink ticket and the rest of us buy from the vendors what we want.

[Clay1]

DrKyle, I like the way that you think. Vendors at a major shoot should be good for them and the shooters. When I was shooting sporting clays I would go to the state trap shoot. I'm not a trap shooter. I would go buy components there - best prices of the year.

On catering, the numbers just have to add up for the caterer and the club. Like the concept though.

[RickB]

Neither of Vickers' stages posted to this thread are legal.

Limited Vickers is a scoring tool, to allow re-engagement of paper targets without having to score/tape between strings.

And, the new rule book makes no allowance for par time stages.

[rwmagnus]

Good stages, Good SO's, and no bottle necks.  I think if you are able to create what Ken Reed posted, you would have a really great match.

I'm really looking forward to it.  By the way, what is a good hotel to stay at?

Ken Reed"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All hotels are in James Derichweiler's name & California IDPA Championship

3 hotels that have rooms on hold for the match are:

Ayers Corona West Group Rate $99/night

1900 Frontage Rd

Corona, CA

1-800-452-4990

Super 8 $ 60 to $65/ night

180 E Trird St

Corona, CA

1-951-738-0888

Motel 6 $ $ 53.95/ night

200 N Lincoln

Corona, CA

951-735-6408

As indicated earlier Ontario has plenty of hotels and a close by airport. More info will be on our website soon. http://prado-idpa.com/

I'd like to see more revolver shooters sign up, right now I believe we have about 10 pretty equally split between ESR & SSR. Autos rule the roost but we always get a fair amount of round gun shooters.

[Sac Law Man]

A professional photographer is well worth it. Yes, anyone can take pics w/ a good quality digital camera. But what they do with them makes the difference. We had a professional at our sanctioned match in May, the 2005 Gold Country Classic. The photographer John Encinas took over 2000 pictures. They are on his website, he also put together an awesome slide show which can be viewed on his website. www.johnencinas.com. Take a look at his work..its awesome

[mike4045]

Get rid of open squadding. I have been to 2 matches at the same club. Both regional level. They allowed teams to get ahead of shooters already in line to shoot. It occured on 4 stages that I knew of. Since they were local for the club they were allowed to do that.

Before you ask they were not staff, just a local team that always shoot together. I have not been back to the club for any matches. They are about an hour from me. Also the clubs I shoot at regularly have not been attending any of the matches. Don't think I will be back either.

Mike

[Crusher]

Stages that ALLOW for multiple shooting solutions within the confines of the rulebook. You DON'T see these very often in IDPA, most often the "dance" is arranged for everyone and they all shuffle along the path. Some "shuffle" much faster than others but allways along the same path.

[bruce282]

I would like the stage designers to remember that not everybody is a 5'8" 145 pound 20something gymnast. I'm taller, a lot heavier, a lot older and a lot less flexible. In fact I'm still recovering from bypass surgury and have a very hard time getting up quickly from a kneeling position.

I would like to see either a kneeling position be the final shooting position of a COF, or have a harder alternate location to fire from while still standing.

I'm getting the strength back in my legs at the gym, and hopfully this won't be a problem in the future.

Just my .02

Bruce

[Bob Hostetter]

Someone mentioned having vendors at the match, stating they are good for the match, the shooters, and the vendors.

While I agree that they are good for the match and the shooters ( I sure like to see a large vendor area when I shoot a match), as a general rule they aren't that great a thing for the vendor for several reasons.

1st, most shooters attend a larger match on a budget leaving little extra money to buy things from a vendor. Its helps a lot when the match director makes sure everyone knows well in advance that such and such vendors are going to be there with product for sale. Shooters needing to purchase things are more likely to take extra money to make the purchases at the match if they know you are going to be there. 2nd, if you are going to have vendors the match director needs to schedule the match with build in downtime so the shooters have a chance to cruise the tables. It needs to be long enough to do a little shopping, but not long enough to warrent going back to the motel or out to lunch. Otherwise its tough to make any sales. 3rd, there needs to be a specific area, centrally located, close to the shooting which is highly visible where all the vendors can set up, and it needs to be a comfortable area (shade is nice, as is something/somewhere to keep the gun noise down to level where you can actually talk). If the shooters don't know you are there, or don't know where to find you, or aren't interested in walking several hunderd yards carrying a heavy shooting bag after shooting 6 stages in the hot sun, you aren't likely to make many sales. And 4th, the match director needs to remember that the vendors are probably shooters as well, and really would like to shoot the match. Since we probably have $1000 of product on our tables we need to be able to shoot when ever time allows. Most of us will watch each other tables while we shoot but if we are all squaded together then we have to load everything up in the truck, then take it back out again when we aren't shooting, not a lot of fun............. Sometimes we hire someone to work the tables for us but after paying the match sponsorship fee, our entry fee's, the cost of shutting down the shop for the day(s), and transporting a bunch of inventory to and from the match, the cost becomes pretty high just to sell $100 worth of stuff of which maybe $20 is profit. This is especially true for companies like ours which sell high end items. Although we make some smaller items our main business is barrels ( a couple of $100) and custom guns (a couple of $1000). If you want to make money selling stuff at a match, sell bullets. They always do good..............

Before you get the wrong impression, I would love to set up a display booth at every big match that I attend. I enjoy the social interaction, I am proud of our product line, and I am never opposed to making a little money, I not even opposed to losing a LITTLE money. BUT, it sure helps if the match director helps out.....................

[Clay1]

Thanks for the good tips on how to treat the vendors at the matches Bob. All good reminders and good ideas.

[Sader72]

At a state or regional match I would like to see as many of the stages as possible that are hidden from general view. This prevents guys from gaming the stage and keeps it a "little" more "realistic."

The shooter should be given a wide lattitude in how to engage targets and when a reload is needed. This makes the shooter think on his feet and results in a wider spread of scores.

Close movers (5 - 15 yards) also keep things interesting.

1 or 2 stages that include steel and reactives make it interseting for spectators to watch, and hopefully encourage them to try IDPA. FWIW.....

D

[9x45]

Prado is west of Norco (Raahauges). Chuck, you need to reset your GPS...

Ralph, try to get JB Barlow to set up a stage using his 'windshield wiper motor' targets. The wobbling movement is challenging.

Other ideas

use an Airsoft gun in a stage. For example, get into the car, your gun hot and holstered, concealed, close door, seatbelt, hands on wheel, beep, draw Airsoft gun from partner in passenge seat, engage 2 BG's in back seat, exit vehicle,draw gun and enganage remaining threats,etc. Use a paper target in front of a cardboard box so the little plastic BB's don't end up everywhere...

start a stage with a shotgun on a popper to activate movers.

forget weak hand, use weak eye, tape over shooters glasses on dominant eye

The kitchen stage, start with hands in dish water (provide a towel for the guys shooting high end 1911's, Glock shooters don't need it)

saving kid stage, don't use a stuffed teddy bear, use a 40lb sand bag wrapped in a towel. Anyone can shoot hanging on to a stuffed toy

bathroom stage, where do you really put your gun? in your pants! Use size extra, extra large shorts, and have shooter hang onto shorts while engaging BG's strong hand.

bedroom stage, you don't wear your gunbelt to bed, so the extra mags must be in the night stand

[Mark Perez]

great ideas 9x45 and Sader72 !

Mark

[down0]

Could we have a state match that somewhat resembles the nationals? Please? Too many MD's think that a "memorable" match is one that has to have numerous gimmick stages, ie, Texas Stars (at an IDPA match), memorizing stuff in a cigar box, 18 pieces of steel, multiple swingers, etc. The nat's tend to be a fairly straight foward test of your shooting (not trick-shooting) skills. My suggestion to anyone putting together a state match is to get the stages from the last few nationals and get some general ideas from them. Please. Pretty please.

[rwmagnus]

Could we have a state match that somewhat resembles the nationals?  Please?  Too many MD's think that a "memorable" match is one that has to have numerous gimmick stages, ie, Texas Stars (at an IDPA match), memorizing stuff in a cigar box, 18 pieces of steel, multiple swingers, etc.  The nat's tend to be  a fairly straight foward test of your shooting (not trick-shooting) skills.  My suggestion to anyone putting together a state match is to get the stages from the last few nationals and get some general ideas from them.  Please.  Pretty please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We're on the same page!

[DrKyle1]

At a state or regional match I would like to see as many of the stages as possible that are hidden from general view.  This prevents guys from gaming the stage and keeps it a "little" more "realistic."  The shooter should be given a wide lattitude in how to engage targets and when a reload is needed.  This makes the shooter think on his feet and results in a wider spread of scores.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you on that one but it is not always the easiest thing to do... have blind stages. We had a blind stage at Fiesta this year and I thought it was great. I liked the surprise and the challenge - this was my first major match. On the other hand I heard a lot of shooters complaining about having blind stages at major matches. I am looking at an airplane stage to submit for next year... movers charging the cockpit etc. and I want that to be a blind stage.

[f250sd]

Have you guys decided yet, for the CA State Champ. to squad or not to squad??

Thanks.

P.S. I vote for squading.

[solaritx]

While a "blind" stage seems like a good idea for a IDPA scenario, it is rarely "blind" for long, esp. at a major match. There are just to many things that can go wrong. The basis must be that each and every shooter should have the same chance to shoot it, and as we all know....people talk. When one shooter tells his buddy or buddies, it is no longer a "blind" stage and those individuals now have an advantage that the other shooters they are shooting against will not have.

Blind stages are fun and we use them sometimes at the local level or have a side-shoot with the blind stage score resulting in some little door prize. But at a major match, a blind stage has no place. Each and every shooter should have the same chance to shoot a stage, and thus shooter ability rather than advance intel. wins the day.

Garry N

[banjobart]

I do not want to get frisked by an SO at a State match again. So, I want a frisk free State match.

I want SO's that have read the rule book at least once in the last 12 months.