Sestock Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 What would be the penelty for a competitor using a >170mm mag in open? Is this a DQable offense? I have caught a competitor using a 170 mag with a +2 base pad twice now. I have given him a stern warning both times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 IIRC Equipment violations require moving to open division. So if you violate Open division equipment rules nowhere for you to go, so keep shooting, and no score for bonzo. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 I don't recall exactly what the punishment would be if you were found to have a mag that was too long at a major match. I think you end up having the stages you've shot so far zero'ed, and you have to correct the equipment, or some such?? That's just my memory of something I heard in hearsay fashion... Or, as Alan suggests - withdrawl from the match... Re: this shooter - this would seem to be a 10.6.1 match DQ. The first time, he might not have been aware that he had an illegal mag, so maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt. The second time is willful cheating. Do you have an official mag gauge or something, so that you're *sure* his mag is over 171.5mm long, before you take action?? Don't just assume it's longer because he has a +2 pad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Don't just assume it's longer because he has a +2 pad <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good advice, some of the older SV "big stick" tubes are not 170mm, so if you use them with a +2 basepad, they are still shorter than the "new style" tubes with a +1 basepad. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 What would be the penelty for a competitor using a >170mm mag in open? Is this a DQable offense? I have caught a competitor using a 170 mag with a +2 base pad twice now. I have given him a stern warning both times. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually the legal length is 171.25. I have the EGW gauge and its printed right on the side of it. How are you "catching" him?? Using the guage or because he has the +2 basepads??? I would assume since the only legal guage is from EGW unless you have one you can't DQ or penalize him?? Not sure though. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 (edited) What would be the penelty for a competitor using a >170mm mag in open? Is this a DQable offense? I have caught a competitor using a 170 mag with a +2 base pad twice now. I have given him a stern warning both times. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reading the rules (6.2.5.1) it would appear the shooter would shoot for no score. If indeed his mags are longer than the open legal lenght which can be measured according to appendix F-1. (Sorry missed the NROI rulling about EGW gauge on USPSA/NROI website) A second violation by the same shooter could put him in jeopardy of unsportsmanlike conduct DQ per rule 10.6.1. Edited May 26, 2005 by GuildSF4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 At the Space City Challenge last year, they zeroed several shooters that were found with overlength mags. Right, Lee? (he learned his lesson this year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I don't think you have to have an official gauge to measure a magazine. Just follow the diagram in the book, measure up the back. If his mags aren't longer than 171.25, they are legal, even if he's got +2's on them. If he's been warned once, I'd DQ him the 2d time. Once is a mistake, twice is cheating. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 I have not put a gauge to the mag, but he acknowledged that it was illegal. Looking at the mag, it is very obvious that it is over length, I will have a rule book handy for the next match. If I was a betting man, I would wager that it is over 180mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 So, he's stated blatantly that he knew he was cheating??? Uh... 10.6.1 10.6.1 10.6.1. 10.6.1..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 First bitch slap him....then 10.6.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 All in favor of utilizing pillory to enforce simple rules say "Aye". A few days sitting in stocks in the blistering sun and pouring rain will bring a whole new perspective on why those extra rounds aren't necessary. Pillory really does need to be brought back into fashion for soooo many reasons. Might be funny if next match that mag got dumped on the ground and stood on by a >250 lb squad member, repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Sestock, Need some rain mud and mag stepped on and ground into the mud where it never can be found again. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 So he did it blantantly. I think next match, if he has the guts to use it again DQ him right after his first shot, send him on his way. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Yeah, I know a local Limited shooter who had a +2 on his mags so he had an easily reloadable 20 is he needed it for a stage where the rest us had to struggle. Never came up when I was with him, but I would've loved to see him get "opened". Would that be as bad as minoring? "Open-ing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 No Pillory, chain him to a large heavy prop and make him ro a stand and shoot course all day. With his BIG STICK just out of reach, and of course being used as part of the course. DQ him on his last course so he gets to unload that honking big stick. Oh, also like Jake's idea. Maybe make that the start signal to the course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 It's hard to believe that he would admit to cheating to boot. Stop him after the first shot fired. Give him a match DQ, then let everyone applaud as he walks off. If he thinks everyone will be watching, next time he may show up with regulation mags. DP-Good new shootin' terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 US 10.6.1 - in the case of a competitor who admits to purposefully violating 10.6.1, the punishment will be a "bitch slap", followed by match disqualification. The Range Master will be notified immediately, so that he may excerise his option to also "bitch slap" the shooter. Should the shooter wish to arbitrate following admission of his guilt, the Range Master should set the arbitration fee to the contents of the shooters wallet plus any equipment used by the competitor to violate the rules, collect said fee, then "bitch slap" the shooter again, notify him/her that they are an "a**hole", and forcibly escort them off property. See appendix G1 for a diagram detailing proper application of the "bitch slap"... Now there's a rule I'll support!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Hey everybody hold the horses, Sestock, is this at a local match that the competitor is using these mags at, I mean really being alocal match you should cut the guy some slack cause everybody wants to be nice and just shoot and have fun........ NOT! The rules are the rules, next time fry his a** with a DQ. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 If you are breaking the rules, stop, slap your mother****ing self, tell everyone you are a cheater and are not to be trusted, then come back next time and shoot legal equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 In my local club, there was a guy i asked how he got 31 rounds into his 'big-stick'. He showed me the base pad he had put on his 170mm. He had a Dawson +2 on and couldnt understand y mine was legal (+0 Dawson) and his wasnt. I showed him the rule book and he promply unloaded than mag and shot the rest of the day w/o it. The next match he showed up w/ a +0 installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 The next match he showed up w/ a +0 installed. Because he isn't a F****** cheater. He's a standup guy who plays by the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 yeah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 How about just entering zero for his scores. He knows he's cheating. You know he's cheating. When he sees his monthly score as zero, I bet he would stop pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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