Stician Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I think once you practice with it, Mike, you'll be surprised what you can hit with a 6.5 pound DA, as long as it's smooth. (And by extension of that ... how little all our pull weight obsession actually matters)I agree that it's us that needs the modification and upgrade not the gun. I took a class with Ben Stoeger last year. His gun with Wolff springs in it wasn't that good. Stacked badly and SA was heavier than mine. But he liked it and was totally killing stage demos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yeah... that "Ben" guy is pretty good! He (and other GM types) with excellent trigger control prove it's not the equipment. But it is easier to have "acceptable" trigger control with a light smooth trigger than a grainy heavy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 21 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: I think once you practice with it, Mike, you'll be surprised what you can hit with a 6.5 pound DA, as long as it's smooth. (And by extension of that ... how little all our pull weight obsession actually matters) You're totally right. My Shadow has a 5.5lb DA and it's totally smooth. Feels much lighter than it is. But I've shot it a good amount. I barely have any trigger time behind the Stock 2. I just enjoy tinkering too much, and I've become OCD over the trigger for no good reason. Or maybe there is a reason. . . I'm a snob Quick observation though: my Shadow and Stock 2 have the same SA Pull weights, but the Stock 2 feels heavier. The Stock 2's trigger pulls lighter until the last couple millimeters, where it hits the wall and requires much more force until it breaks. I hate to say it, but it sorta feels like it stacks. Please don't assassinate me for saying that. I have all the PD goodies inside, including the Titan hammer and BOLO. I'm guessing it's b/c of the FPB? I've never shot a gun with one, so I don't know what it feels like otherwise. Maybe my ineptitude is the issue. The Shadow's trigger takes more effort to get started, but almost feels like it eases off and gets lighter as it pulls back. The difference in the way the two triggers travel and feel is comparable to the way the cams on compound bows feel. Each feels differently. Does anyone else have a similar experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 My gun feels exactly the same with the firing pin block installed or removed. Seriosuly, just go practice with it a bunch and go to a match and have fun with it. 4.9 vs 6.0 pounds... a bit of stacking vs none... they shoot virtually the same at speed. Try them side by side on a short little USPSA stage and see. (Also It may be easier to take the stacking feel out of a CZ because the hammer spring is nearly twice as long.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 SA force can be affected by sear ( face and bottom), trigger bar ramp and hammer hooks. plus anything the bar rubs on or the nose of the bolo. Lube it up! But... also the trigger return spring. Take out the sear cage and hammer. tinker with just the trigger and bar to find any rough spots. The add the sear cage no hammer. Then add hammer / bolo no hammer spring. Each step find and fix any glitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, johnbu said: Take out the sear cage and hammer. tinker with just the trigger and bar to find any rough spots. The add the sear cage no hammer. Then add hammer / bolo no hammer spring. Each step find and fix any glitches. I like this method. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxil343 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Legionshooter, here is the info you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionShooter Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, taxil343 said: Legionshooter, here is the info you want. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxil343 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 hours ago, LegionShooter said: Thanks again Yes sir. Enjoy it, working on these thing is a slippery slope. My plan started out much like yours then morphed into a month long process where I changed out everything I legally could before ever shooting the gun. Any time you put into the gun is worth it for sure. I came from a Glock and still can't seem to get over the wow factor. These are great guns but they need a good bit of finishing work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Factory they are ok guns. They just have a high ceiling. When you start working on them they really become great guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxil343 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 57 minutes ago, Nathanb said: Factory they are ok guns. They just have a high ceiling. When you start working on them they really become great guns. Ain't that the damn truth! I still can't figure out how it is legal to compete against a Glock, M&P, XD, etc. with a hopped up Tanfo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 58 minutes ago, taxil343 said: Ain't that the damn truth! I still can't figure out how it is legal to compete against a Glock, M&P, XD, etc. with a hopped up Tanfo. It's really kind of crazy. Some of these tanfo's have better SA trigger pulls then my limited gun, they are just about as accurate, weight more and get to shoot 125 PF. You do have to deal with one DA trigger pull of every stage though. 10 round mags and minor scoring is the real difference in the two divisions. No way I'd shoot production with a Glock. I mean, it's a glock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Exactly. I had a buddy pick up my stock 2 and he was blown away by how smooth the gun was and how good the trigger was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWfront Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 On 1/7/2017 at 10:28 AM, johnbu said: After polishing and swapping Patriot Defense 14 hammer spring Patriot Defense firing pin return spring Patriot Defense sear spring Patriot Defense trigger return spring I have just done the same to a new Stock 2 with the addition of a PD optimized firing pin. Does this sound like a good set-up for reliability or is the 15.5lb worth the extra weight in DA? I run either Fed or Win primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) If your primers are seated all the way down well below flush, that setup should light off Winchester primers just fine. (and federals are more sensitive than a liberal at a Donald Trump rally, so you're good there.) Edited March 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 PD 14 should pop winchester primers easily. 4 hours ago, NWfront said: I have just done the same to a new Stock 2 with the addition of a PD optimized firing pin. Does this sound like a good set-up for reliability or is the 15.5lb worth the extra weight in DA? I run either Fed or Win primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garbo Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I see everyone talking about having to go to 14# hammer springs and above to set off primers, but mine sets off turkish Yavek(ZQI) 99.9% and anything blazer brass or above 100% with a 13#. Did i just get lucky or does the bolo somehow change how far the hammer goes back and cause light strikes more easily? PD 13# hammer spring PD firing pin and FP spring PD light sear spring PD light trigger spring Extreme one piece sear(No polish) Stock FPB (polished) and spring Stock plunger spring -1.5coils Stock hammer+Disconnector Disconnector, plunger and trigger bar polished (Not that much) 6.5lbs DA 2.75lbs SA Don't mean to highjack the thread, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) You may be lucky, or just less conservative. I try to find where the gun runs 100% and go UP to the next higher spring. How do zqi primers compare to cci or wolf or S&B? Edited March 5, 2017 by johnbu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garbo Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 11 hours ago, johnbu said: You may be lucky, or just less conservative. I try to find where the gun runs 100% and go UP to the next higher spring. How do zqi primers compare to cci or wolf or S&B? They're essentially super hard NATO primers. I've heard of people with stock guns having light strike issues with them (Cough M&P and FNS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWfront Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I tested it out with some CCI's I had around last night and had light strikes in DA only. I've done only minor polishing so that may have played a part. I'm new to this trigger system. Would the lighter trigger/sear spring effect when the hammer is released in DA? The plunger spring is stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 No, the only things that matter to strike force? Those are the hammer, it's springs pins and holes, and the firing pin, it's spring, it's liner, and the firing pin block. Everything else affects pull weight, but once you've released the hammer they are out of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWfront Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) I probably could have worded that better. I meant at what point the hammer is released in DA. Just wondering if it could possibly cause the hammer to short stroke. I just tested a 15.5lb with Win's and all is %100 now. Edited March 5, 2017 by NWfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) With a fully decked gun (Titan / Bolo / etc) and everything polished like glass I had 100% reliability with Winchester primers and a 13 pound PD spring. The primers were seated really really deeply - the gold ones in the foreground of this image. Same gun with the silver CCI primers in the background won't ignite more than 50% of them in DA without adding3.5 pounds of hammer spring. CCIs are harder, as we all know. But in addition to the thicker cup being more difficult to strike with the firing pin, it is also harder for your machine to press a primer into place. My 650 simply won't get them as deep as the Wins in the foreground. Edited March 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWfront Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) That makes sense as my Square deal has the same issues with CCI. All the Wins looked good and I suspect will work fine with the 14lb. Thanks for the insight. Edited March 6, 2017 by NWfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I just received these springs and installed them on already polished parts. I must say it is very smooth. No gauge but sweetened an already nice trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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