Slimebag Car Salesman

[bountyhunter]

It's genuinely amazing how slimy these bozos are. My wife has her heart set on a Lexus RX330, mini SUV. They seem like nice cars, good reviews. Of course, the base sticker is $36k which is kind of pricey. But the good news is the bas emodel comes with everything you could want.

The bad news is you can not get the base model. You can't even order it. Both dealers I went to said Lexus will not ship cars without the "Premium Plus" package which bumps the price up about $6k, which is now $42k.

And it has a bunch of crap I really don't want like the "moon roof" (read that as the $1000 water leak in your roof), high voltage discharge headlights (I'm not planning to use my car as a movie projector), a $1000 stereo upgrade when my wife only listens to AM radio...

So, I call Lexus headquarters and ask why I can't get the base model. They say I can. When I inform them the dealers say that lexus will not supply them, the woman on the phone panics and says someone will have to "get back to me". Prior to that she did admit the dealers are "independent" and Lexus only ships what they order.

So, basically, the dealers are saying: You want the car? You take the $6000 garbage package (which by the way is about 80% markup) or you go screw yourself.

It's times like this I wish my wife wasn't in charge. I'd have a lot of fun telling the dealers where to stick their premium plus package.

[XRe]

I hate that I can't tell you "Try shopping around via Internet and phone to other dealers around the area and country to find one who wants to do business with you" since you posted this in the "What I Hate" forum They see that they've got your wife hooked, and are trying to move inventory off the lot (they pay taxes on that inventory on a monthly basis) and get the comissions, etc. It's more work and a later payoff to actually show you good customer server and order what you want - and they don't make as much off it that way, either...

A lot of car salemen suck - and it seems that the Toyota/Lexus guys can be particularly slimy. My dad was one for a while, and he's told me some rather interesting stories...

[davidwiz]

About a year and a half ago, I needed to get another car (old one got destroyed). I go to the local Subaru, Mitsu, Merc, 2 different BMW, and Audi dealers. At the Mitsu dealer, its hard, hard sell, kid salesperson doesn't know jack about the car (Lancer Evo VIII) so I leave and go next door to the Subaru dealer (same company owns both dealerships) to take a look at the WRX STi. Pretty much the same story, hard sell, "have to go talk to my manager" bs, don't know squat about the car, etc.

I had the exact opposite experience at the Merc, BMW, and Audi dealers - very friendly, knowledge salesperson, did the very soft sale, etc. If I didn't see what I liked on their lot, they called other dealers to see what they had, and if that didn't work, would order what I wanted. The Merc salesperson even wrote to me the next day to follow-up on my visit and test drive.

-David

[rtr]

Car dealers in general suck. I know more about the car than the salesman, when I walk in I know what I want, I know what I will pay. Until you get a salesman that will shut up and sell you the car for what you want to pay, go somewhere else.

[bountyhunter]

I hate that I can't tell you "Try shopping around via Internet and phone to other dealers around the area and country to find one who wants to do business with you" since you posted this in the "What I Hate" forum They see that they've got your wife hooked, and are trying to move inventory off the lot (they pay taxes on that inventory on a monthly basis) and get the comissions, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But Lexus engages in outright fraud. Go to their website and you will see they say the MSRP of the 2WD RX330 is about $36k. Now go to the "build your car" section and click on the car and you will see it comes up with a "forced option package" which varies by the ZIP code you typed in.

http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/lexselectpackage.do

There are NO zip codes which allow deselecting the premium package, the contents of the options just vary slightly (and the package price varies from maybe $3500 to $5000).

So, here is the truth: Lexus quotes a base price for the base model, but they won't build or ship that model to ANYBODY! In reality, the base price is at least $4k higher and they know it. They are a bunch of lying thieves and I filed a formal complaint with them. If I get pissed off enough, I will file one with the attorney general of the state.

[Merlin Orr]

I hate that I can't tell you "Try shopping around via Internet and phone to other dealers around the area and country to find one who wants to do business with you" since you posted this in the "What I Hate" forum They see that they've got your wife hooked, and are trying to move inventory off the lot (they pay taxes on that inventory on a monthly basis) and get the comissions, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But Lexus engages in outright fraud. Go to their website and you will see they say the MSRP of the 2WD RX330 is about $36k. Now go to the "build your car" section and click on the car and you will see it comes up with a "forced option package" which varies by the ZIP code you typed in.

http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/lexselectpackage.do

There are NO zip codes which allow deselecting the premium package, the contents of the options just vary slightly (and the package price varies from maybe $3500 to $5000).

So, here is the truth: Lexus quotes a base price for the base model, but they won't build or ship that model to ANYBODY! In reality, the base price is at least $4k higher and they know it. They are a bunch of lying thieves and I filed a formal complaint with them. If I get pissed off enough, I will file one with the attorney general of the state.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have your wife march into the office - find the nearest salesperson and ....

[SiG Lady]

I just talked to Kendall Lexus of Eugene (800-43-LEXUS) and their take on the Premium Package is that is was the result of surveys done on new buyers before the model was issued--and right after it was issued--and the features were allegedly many that people had requested beyond what the base model offers. Apparently it's not exactly possible to order a "base model" as such. If you have questions, give Kendall Lexus a call at the above toll-free number and talk to Julio (HOO-lee-oh) in Sales who seemed like a very decent sort. The Lexus dealership here in Eugene is a classy place.

[Scooter]

Their MSRP is also higher than what is published at Edmunds. But who looks at MSRP. Invoice is as high as you should have to pay unless it's a limited production model. Remember there's still the dealer hold back and also manufactures offer dealer incentives.

[kimel]

I am currently new truck shopping again. Started down this path a year ago and kept running into slimeballs. I got disgusted and decided to get out of the market for awhile to let the slime dry up...or at least my skin to become unslimey again.

I got back in the market a couple weeks ago. Oddly enough the slimeballs that I had met before have all "moved on". Regrettably they have been replaced by other slimeballs.

So I have a worksheet in my Palm Tungsten that has the various options and Edmunds.com TMV pricing for the truck line I have decided upon. I quickly work up the TMV price and am armed when the sales slime arrives.

The other day I wasn't quite done with the calcs when the slime arrived and asked me what I was doing, not could he help me, what was I doing.

I told him exactly what I was doing and what my opening offer was. He immediately lost interest. So did I.

As I am leaving the new slug on the lot approaches asking if he can help. He is obviously hungry and probably just graduated high school last week. I point at the truck I had been looking at and ask for a test drive but tell him up front what my opening offer was going to be. He shrugged and got the keys. We drove around for about 45 minutes.

When we got back he "needed to pass me on to the senior sales coordinator to do the final dealing". Guess who that was? Sales slime #1. I handed him my business card with my offer written on the back and told him to call me if they were interested.

They haven't called. I doubt they will.

[Putty]

Its funny how I am really really trying to buy my wife a car and think it is reasonable that the saleman make $1k (on top of hold backs , dealer to manufacturer holdbacks , incentives, Manuf. lot buy ins. ETC>). But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, "we gotta make 5k on your azz, and tough shi*, cause were' in bumfu** Idaho and we dont gotta deal cause we are the only dealer around ." Frickin' frickin' frickers'.

So I am done for awhile, gonna drive the ol Honda beater, laugh at EricW's Subaru, and wait for the coming of the Toyota JP Cruiser which better have a V8.

[Scooter]

My parent's just bought my little sister a new car, a Subaru Forester. I e-mailed the internet sales manager who quoted both the invoice and their asking price($300 above invoice). They ended up paying about $150 under invoice. I know Subaru has been known to give really good deals. Many have gotten Scooby for as much as $2000 below invoice.

Maybe you should talk to the internet sales manager. Most of them tend to want to deal.

So far I've only been impressed by 1 sales person and he was a factory trained sales person. The dumbest one was trying to convince me that the engine in one model is the same as the one in another. Turbo'ed inline-5 is not the same as an inline-6. After I made him feel stupid, he left me alone since I was waiting for the service department to finish up.

[XRe]

This is the hate forum. I hate that the rules don't allow me to tell you that I had a similarly good experience buying my Subie.. I also hate that I can't tell you that I agree w/ Scooter, and that the last Toyota I bought was through the Internet Sales Manager at Toyota of Killeen, and it was an extremely smooth, fair, and easy buying experience, unlike the previous transactions I've had w/ Toyota - this will be my buying methodology for cars in the future.

DON'T EVER BUY A DAMN VW BEETLE!!!!!!!!!!! I *****HAAAAAAATE***** that MFPOS....... I can't stress that anywhere near enough. Frankly, I won't buy another VW, period - I don't give a flying crap if the rest of their cars run 800,000 miles w/o failure. I've done more maintenance on this POS than any car my wife and I have owned in our lives *COMBINED*. I crap you negative, and I am not exagerrating.

Regarding the base model being something other than the advertised base... Toyota has regional dealerships, and you'll find the common packages differ between them - as do the prices, and what you get in them, etc. It would appear that Lexus has the same crap going on. The truth of the matter is that Toyota/Lexus will sell the regional dealer what ever they'll order - but convince them to order you something that doesn't have that extra - PORT INSTALLED, WAAAAAY MARKED UP package included... ain't gonna happen...

BTW - you have a better experience at the higher end dealerships because they are *luxury* items - they have built in demand. They sell those cars for at or near MSRP, and sometimes over it, depending on demand. They don't have to hard sell to make a buck....

I hate that I have to end this rant, cause I feel strangely better after having relieved all that car angst

[kimel]

I hate to say it but I had a great experience buying my Subaru. I just wish the same dealer sold the truck line I am looking for.

I tried to do the "Internet Sales" thing at a couple places. Dealer A: Bimbo answering the phone apparently had never heard of such a thing; "Internal sales?...what's that?". Dealer B referred me to "Fleet Sales" which wasn't interested unless I was buying multiples.

The one that took the cake though was the dealership that told me "Internet sales means using the internet, not the telephone...so email us." Never mind the website that clearly states "Call us for your Internet Pricing at 1-800-nnn-nnnn". Dolts!

I am reallll tempted to drive 350 miles and go back where I bought my last truck. That sales person is now the sales manager (I was his very first sale in 1991). But he has probably been corrupted by now.

[Mistral404]

I had a great dealership when I purchased my 4Runner. They were pretty low key about it. My wife and I just sat in the showroon for a couple of hours and the price kept coming down. Of course I did all my research before hand and had an idea of the cost. They dropped the price more than $8,000 off of MSRP!

At a second dealership, my wife negoitated a great price on her car.

I think the key was to know the costs up front and have your financing already approved by the bank, credit union, etc. The finance guy got all upset when my wife already had her financing. This is where they make additional profit, by steering your to their financing arrangements. He finally found a credit union that would offer her a lower rate-so she took it.

All in all, these two Toyota dealerships out of the six or so I visited did a good job.

By the way, do not give your license to the salesman. They run an immediate credit check on you. This shows up on your credit report. My credit union asked my I had all the hits/inquiries on my report. That is when I found out about the license thing. Luckily, they did not care but my lender said too my hits will lower your credit score.

[davidwiz]

By the way, do not give your license to the salesman.  They run an immediate credit check on you.  This shows up on your credit report.  My credit union asked my I had all the hits/inquiries on my report.  That is when I found out about the license thing.  Luckily, they did not care but my lender said too my hits will lower your credit score.

They will need to make a copy of your driver's license if you want to take a test drive. Just tell them that it's only to be used to make a copy for the test drive, and nothing else. Also, IIRC, under Federal law, they can't run a credit report until you apply for financing.

-David

[Flexmoney]

Make your own copy to take in with you...blacking out the info that you choose (like your SS#).

Nobody ever gets my DL out of my hands.

(Unless they have a gun on their hip, a badge on their chest and a car with pretty lights.)

[Rob Boudrie]

Make your own copy to take in with you...blacking out the info that you choose (like your SS#). 

Nobody ever gets my DL out of my hands. 

(Unless they have a gun on their hip, a badge on their chest and a car with pretty lights.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And write across the front "Consent is not granted for a credit check."

[raz-0]

I'll join in the hate, although it is more the manufacturers than the sales people. For some reason on my eclipse when I bought it, if you wanted a LSD in the rear, you simply could not get one without getting leather seats and a sunroof. They did the same options bundling thing as lexus does. Most of the "import" brands do it.

As for scumbag salespeople, I have run into a few, but I've run into more decent ones than not. Most of the choice examples seem to be from the HUGE dealerships. I've been shopping for a replacement, and one place I stopped had like 8 different brands on one lot, they just shove the salespeople out the door and have them accost you as you drive in like the squeegee people at stoplights.

The upside is that if you are informed, places that large almost always have a fleet sales person. Quite often fleet sales has access to the non-bundled packages, but not always. They are usually non-nonsense minimum markup kind of processes.

[Shooter Grrl]

Wow - ya'all need to be part of the GM Supplier Family I bought a new truck 2 weeks ago, for about 9k off sticker. No haggling necessary! Walk in with my papers and drove out with the new truck.

[Nolan]

I bought a new truck 2 weeks ago, for about 9k off sticker. No haggling necessary! Walk in with my papers and drove out with the new truck.

OK this is the hate forum, New Truck 9K off sticker, Ooooh I hate you!

Nolan

ps just kidding!

[Rob Boudrie]

Wow - ya'all need to be part of the GM Supplier Family I bought a new truck 2 weeks ago, for about 9k off sticker. No haggling necessary! Walk in with my papers and drove out with the new truck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get that through work as well. The discount is, in general, only modest compared to what you can get without it - but you don't have to play games to get to that price. Also, GM occasionally gives its employees coupons which let friends buy one car at the "supplier discount" price.

Also, other specials (like the $2000K "after negotiation" credit I get from the GM mastercard) is not applicable with the preferred supplier discount. One of the local shooters got the supplier discount price quoted, and told the dealer he would buy only if the dealer figured out a way to make it work with his GM card rebate. The dealer came within $100 of the "supplier discount" without writing it up as such, so he was still able to use the GM master card credit and get a pickup truck(*) for $8K and change.

* - If a 2 wheel drive qualifies as a legit pickup

[kimel]

Wow...I have NEVER had to give my license for a test drive unless I wanted one without the sales dweeb in the rig with me. They generally just want to see that I have a license. One asked for proof of insurance. More often than not they just hand me the keys, hop in on the other side and away we go.

In WA and ID the SSN is not on the DL any longer so running a credit check is kinda difficult.

I hate states that still use the SSN on the DL. That is putting all the info a bad guy needs on one convenient document that is relatively easy to swipe. There are still a LOT of colleges and universities using the SSN as the Student ID...despite laws against such a thing. But that is a whole other hate rant.

I'm with Nolan though...I hate people that get super deals on new trucks without having to slog through the slime.

[Nolan]

I'm with Nolan though...I hate people that get super deals on new trucks without having to slog through the slime. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I've bought all my new vehicles through my credit union's fleet purchase plan and gotten them for just over invoice.

What I hate is to get the good deals I have to buy them in Gilroy, 60 miles from where I live. Here in the Bay Area the dealers are the usual overpriced slime this hate rant started with, with about a billzion car dealers you would think the competition would drive the prices down, but it seems to have the opposite effect.

Nolan

[SiG Lady]

..."More often than not they just hand me the keys, hop in on the other side and away we go."

The Nissan dealer essentially did that to me, too: I was headed down the I-5 to stop at the Creswell Airport that day to do an aerial survey and it meant about a 25-minute drive from where we were at the dealership. I declined their offer because I was unfamiliar with the car (we'd essentially already picked one out) and didn't want to take any chances, but they were adamant it was fine. I still declined (being cautious by nature) but they really didn't seem to give a dang if I either drove to Bakersfield or just down the street.

I also got the deal I wanted on the car because I offered them #X,XXX in cash and that was the limit--take it or leave it. They took a hit on their MSRP but salivated at the immediate wad of cash (and a decent trade-in vehicle), and I drove it home the next day.

[Kimberkid]

I also get the supplier discount, which to the best of my knowledge is always 1% below dealer invoice. The downside of this is that as soon as you start asking questions to the effect of "what is the supplier price of this vehicle?" the customer service usually goes out the window. The dealer has to go to the manufacturer just to get back that remaining 1 percent, so he has little to no incentive to go through the hassle of being helpful.

I have been loosely considering a new vehicle lately, under no real time frame. However, inspired by this thread I decided to stop at a couple dealerships yesterday. The Buick guy was fairly pleasant and when I told him I was just lookin, he retreated to the point where he was far enough away not to bother me, and yet close enough to answer a question if I had one. The Nissan guy walked up on me and started asking questions before I got out of my own car in the parking lot. I decided to combat his arsenal of retarded questions with my new plan of being an insufferable prick. (some might say this isnt new) I opted to smoke nonstop the whole time I was there. Inside the showroom, while sitting in the showroom cars, while sitting in the cars in the lot, while sitting at the guys desk. As well as asking equally retarded questions like, " is this truck gonna attract some chicks" to "how many dead hookers can I fit in the trunk" to "any good places to stash a dime bag". Nissan appears to be the lowest rung of the automotive sales ladder and I wont ever be going back.