gerritm Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Know your offset if you are going to shoot PCC. Saw a bunch of walls and props shot at close range recently due to new PCC shooters not knowing the offset between the dot and the barrel. Stage design needs to take this into account when building a stage. It is different than a pistol. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, gerritm said: Know your offset if you are going to shoot PCC. Saw a bunch of walls and props shot at close range recently due to new PCC shooters not knowing the offset between the dot and the barrel. Stage design needs to take this into account when building a stage. It is different than a pistol. gerritm the shooter needs to know their offset and not shoot up the stage props. why should the ptops in pistol matches be changed to accommodate 1 division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, gerritm said: Know your offset if you are going to shoot PCC. Saw a bunch of walls and props shot at close range recently due to new PCC shooters not knowing the offset between the dot and the barrel. Stage design needs to take this into account when building a stage. It is different than a pistol. gerritm I dont think changing courses to support one division is a good idea. This problem is totally on the shooter. I see open guys do it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, gerritm said: Know your offset if you are going to shoot PCC. Saw a bunch of walls and props shot at close range recently due to new PCC shooters not knowing the offset between the dot and the barrel. Stage design execution needs to take this into account when building shooting a stage. It is different than a pistol. gerritm FIFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I agree, both aspects needs to be addressed. Shooting and design. What I am referring to in a stage design is that you can reach around a wall with a pistol to shoot a target, but not always with a rifle. I have seen it and experienced it as a right handed pistol shooter and left handed rifle/shotgun shooter. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just now, gerritm said: I agree, both aspects needs to be addressed. Shooting and design. What I am referring to in a stage design is that you can reach around a wall with a pistol to shoot a target, but not always with a rifle. I have seen it and experienced it as a right handed pistol shooter and left handed rifle/shotgun shooter. gerritm PCC wanted to shoot in pistol matches, deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, bret said: PCC wanted to shoot in pistol matches, deal with it. ^ this is what we(I shoot PCC) asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I knew stage design and COF would be changed to accommodate PCC. I doubt it will take long for changes to be made to accommodate PCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Had a friend struggle with the left side of a barricade stage last Saturday. His comment was " Need to work on my barricade and weak hand shooting with the PCC." And quite frankly, the carbine offset is not that different than an upright C-More pistol. We have been using them for quite a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 43 minutes ago, gerritm said: I agree, both aspects needs to be addressed. Shooting and design. What I am referring to in a stage design is that you can reach around a wall with a pistol to shoot a target, but not always with a rifle. I have seen it and experienced it as a right handed pistol shooter and left handed rifle/shotgun shooter. gerritm If people want to shoot rifles in pistol matches, they need to figure out how to do it safely and effectively. There should be NO changes in stage design to accomodate them, since all the rifle shooters promised such changes would not be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 We can say " let the shooter deal with it ". Their problem right? But, in reality it's going to be the MD's problem if new shooters shoot up his props. Will the MD decide to change some stages to avoid the problem? Or will he stop allowing PCC? Or maybe he needs to give a briefing to PCC shooters at his club to avoid problems. I'm not a MD, not my issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 31 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: We can say " let the shooter deal with it ". Their problem right? But, in reality it's going to be the MD's problem if new shooters shoot up his props. Will the MD decide to change some stages to avoid the problem? Or will he stop allowing PCC? Or maybe he needs to give a briefing to PCC shooters at his club to avoid problems. I'm not a MD, not my issue. I'd start putting no-shoots on the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, motosapiens said: I'd start putting no-shoots on the walls. Ive seen this done a lot for no other reason than to protect the prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccurdy53 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 26 minutes ago, Patrick Scott said: Ive seen this done a lot for no other reason than to protect the prop. How does a piece of cardboard protect the prop? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just now, mccurdy53 said: How does a piece of cardboard protect the prop? Inquiring minds want to know. People seem a little more mindful of where their bullets are going if there is a NS penalty involved. My observation is that shooters will take a little extra time to make sure they clear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, mccurdy53 said: How does a piece of cardboard protect the prop? Inquiring minds want to know. Using no shoots to "protect" props is the only way to have penalties for shooting props under the USPSA rule set. It *may* make the shooter more muzzle aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 We have found that a no-shoot definitely makes shooters aim a little more carefully. It does create a potential issue with shoot-throughs, but as long as they are onto paper you can usually figure it out. You would want to avoid any situation where someone could shoot through the no-shoot and hit steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 hours ago, gerritm said: Know your offset if you are going to shoot PCC. Stage design needs to take this into account when building a stage. NO , it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, Sarge said: NO , it doesn't. Agreed. The SHOOTER needs to pay attention to offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 39 minutes ago, teros135 said: 46 minutes ago, Sarge said: NO , it doesn't. 39 minutes ago, teros135 said: Agreed. The SHOOTER needs to pay attention to offset. I do agree to a point. It is always the shooter's responsibility to be safe and know their weapons. Aiming a PCC or rifle is totally different than an iron sighted or open pistol at the end of your arm/hand. What you see thru your sight/red dot is not where your muzzle is aimed and how it is manipulated around and thru walls and barricades should be taken into account IMHO. What is easy to shoot for a pistol is not necessarily the same for a rifle. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, gerritm said: What is easy to shoot for a pistol is not necessarily the same for a rifle. gerritm The sport is supposed to be a challenge(of shooting ability). Choosing to shoot a rifle in the sport brings with it its own set of challenges that need to be accounted for and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 34 minutes ago, gerritm said: What is easy to shoot for a pistol is not necessarily the same for a rifle. but we (pistol shooters) don't care about that. if rifle shooters don't like pistol stages, they should shoot rifle matches instead of pistol matches. Personally, I think pcc will become alot more interesting and fun once there are enough shooters to start putting on pcc-only matches, but until then I strongly resist the idea of dumbing down pistol matches to accomodate rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scott Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Pistol matches were kind enough to let us into their house, lets not try to rearrange their furniture. Being provided a warm blanket(start positions, ect), was pretty gracious as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 11:56 AM, Patrick Scott said: People seem a little more mindful of where their bullets are going if there is a NS penalty involved. My observation is that shooters will take a little extra time to make sure they clear it. Definitely. We've been doing this for a long time before PCC. Especially if you have a partially hidden target behind a wall instead of barrels, or a port that sits outside the shooting area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) On 11/7/2016 at 11:53 AM, mccurdy53 said: How does a piece of cardboard protect the prop? Inquiring minds want to know. 1. Because people are much less likely to attempt to send a bullet 1/4" away from a noshoot than a window frame in the first place. 2. Because you staple the noshoot to the wall so that it protrudes 3" or so into the window opening, making the window smaller. Even if they hold just above the white thing with their dot and pop a few shots off... It perforates the noshoot. Not the wall. Edited November 8, 2016 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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