Tips for idpa shooter, shooting uspsa

[Bwidpa]

Don't know if this topic has been beat to death.  I'm primarily an idpa shooter and regularly place in the top 5 at local idpa matches.  I started shooting uspsa matches and have noticed that the people I regularly beat in idpa matches will beat me in uspsa matches.  When looking at scores I have a higher amount of "a" hits but that's not bringing me higher hit factors. I'm shooting SS major. Question, what's the advice on deciding whether to sacrifice accuracy for speed on a given stage? Or any other tips you might have for someone going from idpa to uspsa?

[Trent1k1]

Without seeing any videos, my guess is that you will need to speed up. 

In Single Stack Major, a couple of Charlies here and there are not a big deal (always want to avoid Deltas and Mikes).  Since there is no mag retention, reload when it makes sense (as in running from one position to another, in the open) as opposed to behind cover.

There are numerous threads on how to determine if you need to get all your hits as opposed to going really fast, but if you are coming from IDPA, just think SPEED for now.  Once you are starting to have Mikes and Deltas, dial the speed back just a bit.  I'm sure your Hit Factors will go up.  USPSA is a balance, but I think you need to rapidly change your mindset first to speed, then figure out how to shoot as accurately as you can while moving MUCH faster than you may be used to.

 

[wav3rhythm]

Are they also shooting SS? USPSA gives more of an advantage to a higher capacity with the freestyle format and (typically) longer stages.


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[Racinready300ex]

When you beat these guys in IDPA are the getting PE's? Do they practice with the vest, and slide lock and all the other little things that make IDPA different? The reality is probably just that you are shooting in there game, so they are at a bit of a advantage.

You're best bet isn't to sacrifice speed for accuracy, you don't have to pick one or the other you can have both with practice. But, as a IDPA shooter you probably do need to speed up, and improve your gun handling. Just from watching IDPA shooters try USPSA I would guess your stage plans and execution are probably what is hurting you the most. A lot of  IDPA guys I see come out and look at the stage but don't really "walk" the stage. They even look a little lost as they shoot. Visualize your plan over and over again until you don't have to think about it.

When you get the hang of USPSA, you will probably be dominating your local IDPA match.

[MemphisMechanic]

In USPSA shooting Major, you need to be fast enough that most of your hits at 7 yards and beyond are spreading out in the A zone, due to the speed you're shooting.

You'll drop some C's. They don't hurt NEARLY as much in USPSA as a -1 does in IDPA. (IDPA is scored more similarly to shooting minor in USPSA - you have an advantage in points in USPSA that you've never had before)

Your gun should never lock open unless there is absolutely no way to avoid it. Find places to change mags whenever possible while moving.

Try not to 'post up' for anything inside of 10 yards if you can avoid it. Get out in the middle of the doorway and hose the targets down without quite coming to a stop. Stay low, feet wide, make sure you would get called for COVER! as badly as possible on every single shot.

The movement is probably hurting you a lot - stay as far away from the walls as possible.

Edited October 25, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[Hi-Power Jack]

I had to pick one or the other, ten years ago.

Couldn't shoot both IDPA and USPSA - good luck with it, many people are

able to do both - but not me.   

[racknrider]

I feel your pain. I'll shoot the most alphas and finish down the list. I have to get my feet moving sooner and execute better reloads on the move. Get the low hanging fruit then worry about those .8 draws and .2 transitions. 

[Bwidpa]

10 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

When you beat these guys in IDPA are the getting PE's? Do they practice with the vest, and slide lock and all the other little things that make IDPA different? The reality is probably just that you are shooting in there game, so they are at a bit of a advantage.

You're best bet isn't to sacrifice speed for accuracy, you don't have to pick one or the other you can have both with practice. But, as a IDPA shooter you probably do need to speed up, and improve your gun handling. Just from watching IDPA shooters try USPSA I would guess your stage plans and execution are probably what is hurting you the most. A lot of  IDPA guys I see come out and look at the stage but don't really "walk" the stage. They even look a little lost as they shoot. Visualize your plan over and over again until you don't have to think about it.

When you get the hang of USPSA, you will probably be dominating your local IDPA match.

No PE's.  A lot of guys I see who are better uspsa shooters tend to have fast raw times, but drop points in IDPA which affect there score more than I am willing to.  I am currently unclassified in uspsa (tried out different divisions and settled on SS, with my good ol' STI), but the matches I've attended I'm scoring with the B class shooters. When talking with some of the guys, they mentioned that depending on the stage, they are willing to drop "a" hits because the speed is going to be better for the hit factor on that stage.  Is there a deciding factor when to up the speed and sacrifice the hits? For IDPA I traveled to sanctioned matches in 7 different states this year, next year I plan on trying to throw in some bigger uspsa matches.  Trying to figure out the game before I do any traveling. Thanks for the responses!

[chb119]

Utilize the walk-through period more and better.  Use the full-time to develop, analyze and refine your plan.  Once you get to position 1, you hit where you want to hit, so figure out the best route to get there, and where you want position 1 to be.  

[9x45]

IDPA is straight time minus half points, USPSA is points earned minus penalties divided by time. And it's a winner take all in USPSA, even if you didn't earn the points. That's why guys who shoot mikes, but much faster than your almost all Alpha run, kick your butt. Simple, shoot faster....

[MemphisMechanic]

Try something simple: 

At your next match, consider the A and C zone cumulatively to be one big "down zero" zone and hammer the targets there as quickly as you can.

Thats the simple answer.

The complicated one is that it depends on the stage's hit factor. Lots of movement, an unloaded start, and low round count all in the same stage will drag down the hit factor. In that there is lots of "non trigger" time, and thus points matter more. Your hit factor could be 5 or lower.

...But most local matches like to set up hoser stages or high-round-count stages with hit factors higher than 6 to 10. Then, it's time to crank up the speed and go for broke. That means (in oversimplified terms) a shooter was earning 6 to 10 points per second, which means shooting lots of holes in cardboard really fast.

Look at the hit factors the previous (good) shooters are earning. That will tell you how to approach the stage... but honestly right now you simply have to learn to shoot much faster than you currently do.

This is why those of us who were IDPA Masters and who had multiple 1st Place Master State Championship awards... Came into USPSA as C-class shooters. Our standard for 'speed shooting' was actually really low.

(IDPA is a fixed, low hit factor. The points are always massively important.)

Edited October 27, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[rowdyb]

there is no cover. as someone who shoots both all the time you might also be too slow into a uspsa shooting position and too slow to the first shot when you've arrived there. get to the part where you're pulling the trigger sooner.

stages are normally longer and have a higher round count than in idpa. so hustle your body, mind and eyes. do everything when you're not pulling the trigger much faster than you currently are.

others have already touched on the scoring differences and their influences. to put it in uspsa terms every idpa stage is a fixed hit factor while in uspsa they are not. meaning idpa weighs every stage the same in a way and uspsa doesn't. it's all about points per second (hit factor).

stop thinking about beating people. that subconsciously limits you to doing just enough to beat them. instead think about doing your absolute best. then there is not limit.

personally, i have a greater difficulty going to idpa from uspsa than the other direction.

 

[waktasz]

Find the way to shoot that gets you the highest hit factor. You'd be surprised at the pace you need to run a stage and pull the trigger I think. Pick some of the classifiers out of the book and compare your scores to the high hit factor to see what I'm talking about (use azshooters.org to determine the high scores). You also need to experiment with aiming a little less and seeing what sort of hits you can get. You still want 80-90% Alphas but you are OK dropping a few more charlies.  As always, there is a balance. I definitely shoot a completely different style when shooting IDPA compared to USPSA

[tanks]

It is a balance. If you look at any stage from a Practiscore match (just go to the site and pick a match). As you go down the list you can see results of speed vs points. Some  much faster but not as accurate so they place lower than those that were several seconds slower. Then, you have some at lower part of the list that have more points but were much much slower than some that are less accurate but much faster.

Now, if you look at M or GM level shooters (again just pick any match from Practiscore site) you will notice that those guys have both points and speed. Something to strive for.

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by tanks

[M1911]

The biggest difference for me was stage planning.  In USPSA, you need to plan your stage to avoid standing reloads.  

[Milkcoma]

USPSA is scoring as many points as fast as possible.