Laser Sites On A 1911 S&w?

[Stinky Taters]

I need a little help and I hope this is the proper forum for my question.

On a 1911, S&W is offering their PD model w/Crimson Trace Lasegrip. Are lasers more a gimic or do they have a place in CCW/Defensive Tactics?

Also, one dealer says they don't carry the S&W 1911s because as he put it, "they constantly fall apart."

The other dealer thinks they are about as good as slice bread.

Back to the lasers. What is your opinion/use of them. (PS - a factory 1911 Smith is only $130 more than the 1911 Sc I was looking at.

Thanks

[diehli]

I need a little help and I hope this is the proper forum for my question.

On a 1911, S&W is offering their PD model w/Crimson Trace Lasegrip.  Are lasers more a gimic or do they have a place in CCW/Defensive Tactics?

Also, one dealer says they don't carry the S&W 1911s because as he put it, "they constantly fall apart."

The other dealer thinks they are about as good as slice bread.

Back to the lasers.  What is your opinion/use of them.  (PS - a factory 1911 Smith is only $130 more than the 1911 Sc I was looking at.

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I highly doubt you'd use it in a real gunfight. If you did, I'd have to guess it'd be during an actual firefight (where you need to start aiming, etc.) and not the standard 2-3 shot gunfight.

My take on it, for a CCW gun get the Sc one... you'll appreciate the lower weight more than the laser.

Can't help with the concerns about the SW1911 itself... dunno nuthin' 'bout 'em other than what EricW has bitched about WRT the extractor.

[shred]

Friendly Moderator Pre-Reminder: Please remember the forum rules and minimize the 'real-life-defensive-action-with-kung-fu-grip', while focusing on the pros and cons of lasers and SW 1911's as-such. Thanks.

[mcoliver]

'real-life-defensive-action-with-kung-fu-grip',

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show me the grip! Show me the grip!

[George]

Gotta get a grip, gotta get a grip, definitely gotta get a grip on it... ;-)

Back on track, I see lasers having some training use in finding out how well you are following through in dry fire practice. But for myself, I find using the sights as my indicator of follow is best. It is a much better approximation of what I will be seeing when I am shooting in a "Match".

I have yet to see anyone use a laser target indicator in a competitive match situation. I doubt seriously that it would be very fast in harsh daylight, or glare filled lighting situations, or on dark target faces. I think sights on the pistol are something that will be more practical for any type of shooting under any kind of pressure.

--

Regards

[EricW]

My personal S&W 1911 had some shortcomings with the extractor, but it decidedly is ANYTHING but a POS fall-apart pistol. Smith produces a solid, reliable product and backs it up. I should also note that Smith sent me a free extractor to replace my existing one with. Everything else about the pistol gets two thumbs up. You will have a tough time finding a better value on the market.

I have shot a 1911 with CT laser grips. I thought they were of high quality. However, I found myself tending to look around the gun to find the dot, which I was not comfortable with. Nobody notable uses them for any type of speed shooting (at least that I've heard of).

That said, the unrespected GM Phil Strader has mentioned something about training with lasers. Hopefully he'll see this thread and pass on some pearls of wisdom.

[Flexmoney]

A bunch of us were shooting plate racks one evening (8 inch round steel at about 11 yards). As it got dark, one of the guys grabbed a S&W revolver out of his range bag. It sports the laser grips. I don't shoot revolvers much, so they don't "point" naturally for me. It took me forever to get the laser on the target. I didn't even know which direction to correct my aim...as the laser got lost in the distant backstop when it didn't shine right on the plate. I had to go to the sights to get on target.

So...no sale on a laser for me.

On the other hand, I've had great success with the Surefire X200 light that goes onto the rail on my Glock. The light works great. Out to a good 15y, I can just shine the light at the target and hit it. (Point of impact is pretty much centered in the middle of the round light beam.)

[EricW]

I wasn't going to pass judgement, but my experience mirrored Flex's almost exactly. They seem like a great idea....right up until you use one at the range.

[John Dunn]

When I'm using my ballistic shield, looking through the bullet proof glass portal, the laser comes in handy as there is no way to see your sights. Wait a minute....that wasn't me, it was some guy I saw in a magazine. I don't have a ballistic shield. No laser, no ballistic shield!?! I'm practically defenseless!

[cking]

The laser grip panels don't work for lefties, thumb gets in the way. Lasers do work good for poaching animals in the dark. They don'tknow enough to run away. So if you like to shoot dillers at night they are great.

[BerettaRacer]

As far as lasers goes the CTC products are about the best you can get, rating much higher than the Lasermax. I don't know about the 1911's but the newer mod 302's wraparounds for the Beretta's are getting good reviews on the Beretta Forum.

Personally, for shooting indoors, I have a plate rack gun, a modified Beretta 92, with a laser, a larger rail mount full size unit, not the CTC's, and it just rocks. Much faster first shot accuisition than a C-more for me. Shot it for several years at speed shooting matches in New Orleans. It's just getting familiar with a different sight picture, you don't focus on the gun, you focus on the target, and the laser just transitions directly to it, when the dot touches the target zone, shoot, transition your focus to the next target and the gun will follow.

Some others are correct though, in daylight they are useless, and outside darker is definitely better. YMMV

[Duane Thomas]

I have yet to see anyone use a laser target indicator in a competitive match situation. I doubt seriously that it would be very fast in harsh daylight, or glare filled lighting situations, or on dark target faces.

I could have said the same thing up until about three weeks ago. A friend of mine, Mike Johnson, is the only good shooter I'd ever met who really liked lasers. Last month we had the first-ever example of a match that, every month, is always going to have the same stages, one of them being a dark house. You start behind a barrel at 10 yards, with three Milpark targets out there in the dark. And when I say "in the dark" that's exactly what I mean. The only light you're getting is from, like, bullet holes in the walls. You've got to go 2-2-2 from around the right side barricade for String 1, then 2-2-2 around the left side barricade for String 2. You're allowed to use a light or laser for these two strings, and you start from low ready. (String 3 is to move up to five yards and go 2-2-2 from the holster without a light or laser, just using your index.)

So I watch other people get out there, fumble around trying to hold a light and gun at the same time, or shoot one-handed while holding the light with the other, on the first two strings. No one was doing very well. I totally lunched the stage. Every hit outside the A-zone adds a second to your time, and my total stage score was 31 seconds. Ouch! Then Mike went up to the line, used his laser, and around the right side barricade it was like bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang, six good hits. Around the left side barricade, bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang, six good hits. Then he cleaned the five yard stuff as well and had a total stage score of, like, 15 seconds.

It was an eye-opening experience for me to see what a good shooter who understands the technology and its capabilities can do with a laser in a situation where it'll give them a major advantage. You better believe at the next match - this past Sunday, actually - I had a laser on my G34 (in it, actually, I was running a LaserMax) and my stage score was also 15 seconds, with no points down. And it was EASY. Hah! Technology at work, baby.

[waktasz]

One of these days I'm going to shoot my 8 shot 1911pd with CT grips in open division for fun.

[mcoliver]

Curious, for a typical gun-mounted laser, what's the MOA of that dot?

[DogmaDog]

The only time I've actually used a laser, it was an AN/PEQ-2 mounted on an M-249 SAW, and viewed through AN/PVS-7 night vision goggles--the laser isn't visible to the naked eye.

If you have to wear NVGs, and you can't focus on close stuff like the sights, then an infrared laser works really well. A machinegun isn't so bad, either.

Otherwise, I don't think you could be any faster with a laser than with a dot sight, and probably not even with iron sights...you always know where to look for the sights, but that laser dot could be anywhere, and if your target isn't against the wall, you might have to look way past it to find the red dot.

DogmaDog

[smokshwn]

Although common wisdom suggests that actual use of a laser sighting device is less than what is advertised there are several people out there who are doing some work that indicates with training the laser can be a significant advantage.

As far as the S&W being a POS, I will give it a +1 all day long as far as durability and reliability goes.

Take care, Craig

[calhunter]

Bought one of the first 1911 Smith's to come out. Other than the recall on the early ones I have not had any problems what so ever. Smiths service turn around on the recall was excellent. sent the gun on a Tuesday got it back the next Monday, less than a week.

Dillon had a Blue Press article on the S&W 1911 I think about a year ago.

[Ted Murphy]

During an Ernie Langdon class he did a little CT demo and discussed it's pros pretty good. It was an overcast day so he shot his 1911 some with the laser and showed how he uses it, etc.

It made me think a lot better of the laser on a handgun.

Still don't own one though, but I think they have their merits if you are willing to learn how they are used.

Ted