aandabooks Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Been shooting Production with a XDM so worrying about holstering and safety engaged has not been an issue. I have shot some SS so I know you have to engage the safety when holstering. I'm planning to shoot some Limited this winter so I want to be clear on this rule. If I go through make ready and put gun in holster without safety on but my hand has not yet left the pistol, is the handgun holstered and subject to DQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yes. I have DQED a guy for that exact thing. The last sentence is critical: 10.5.11 Holsteringaloadedhandgun,inanyofthefollowingconditions: 10.5.11.1 10.5.11.2 10.5.11.3 A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied. A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied. A revolver with the hammer cocked. All these conditions apply the entire time the handgun is in the holster. See 8.1.2.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If you think about the rule it's supposed to prevent us from blowing our feet off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 So, if the gun goes in the holster and my hand is still on the gun with the safety off it is a DQ? That is what I think you are saying and as I am reading the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) So, if the gun goes in the holster and my hand is still on the gun with the safety off it is a DQ? That is what I think you are saying and as I am reading the rule.Yes exactly. When it's holstered the safety must be on under the example you mentioned.Not that I think you are but shooters may think since having the hand on the gun means they are not ready to start. This in no way says they don't have to have safety engaged. When I run shooters I watch and LISTEN for safeties to get engaged during /after make ready and BEFORE the gun is completely in the holster. Edited July 23, 2016 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKnoch Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Do safeties have to be engaged on a decocked da/sa gun with a safety, such as cz's, tanfos, fnx's? Daniel K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Ammo Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Are you talking about shooting limited with the XDM? If so, wouldn't the rules be the same for holstering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjones Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Do safeties have to be engaged on a decocked da/sa gun with a safety, such as cz's, tanfos, fnx's? Daniel K No. For production - start is DA. For Limited - its' cocked/locked w/ safety on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Are you talking about shooting limited with the XDM? If so, wouldn't the rules be the same for holstering? No. I picked up a 2011 to shoot Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowmag Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 With a 2011 I load Barbie mag rack slide safety remove mag install 30 round mag then holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I would say the gun is holstered when it's resting in the holster and you could remove your hand without the gun moving. That being said I suggest you train yourself to put the safety on while the gun is pointed in a safe direction and before moving toward the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 With a 2011 I load Barbie mag rack slide safety remove mag install 30 round mag then holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicalflinch Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I was told in my RO class that the gun is UNHOLSTERED when the trigger is exposed, I'd assume the opposite is true for holstering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I was told in my RO class that the gun is UNHOLSTERED when the trigger is exposed, I'd assume the opposite is true for holstering?Never assume anything in regards to the rules. You'll get taken to task either by the gamers or the RM. lolThere is no definition of unholstered in the rule book but this is what you need to know from the book: Draw ................................The point at which a handgun is removed or disen- gaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 This appears to be an area of the rule book that might need a little clarification. I plan to make engaging the safety part of my load and make ready routine. I personnally don't consider the handgun to be holstered until it is in the holster and I have removed my hand from it but I don't want to get DQ'd for starting to put the gun in the holster and then engaging the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) This appears to be an area of the rule book that might need a little clarification. I plan to make engaging the safety part of my load and make ready routine. I personnally don't consider the handgun to be holstered until it is in the holster and I have removed my hand from it but I don't want to get DQ'd for starting to put the gun in the holster and then engaging the safety.It sounds like you see engaging the safety as an arbitrary rule on par with holster position. There are real safety issues with holstering a short travel, light pull weight trigger without the safety on - a jacket zipper or an untucked shirt in the wrong place at the wrong time and you've just shot yourself in the leg. Instead of worrying about how far you can go towards the holster before engaging the safety without getting in trouble just don't do your make ready on auto pilot. Think about what gun you're using each time and proceed appropriately.Edited to fix iPad typos. Edited July 24, 2016 by bdpaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 This appears to be an area of the rule book that might need a little clarification. I plan to make engaging the safety part of my load and make ready routine. I personnally don't consider the handgun to be holstered until it is in the holster and I have removed my hand from it but I don't want to get DQ'd for starting to put the gun in the holster and then engaging the safety.It sounds like you see engaging the safety as an arbitrary rule on par with holster position. There are real safety issues with holstering a short travel, light pull weight trigger without the safety on - a jacket zipper or an untucked shirt in the wrong place at the wrong time and you've just shot yourself in the leg. Instead of worrying about how far you can go towards the holster before engaging the safety without getting in trouble just don't do your make ready on auto pilot. Think about what gun you're using each time and proceed appropriately.Edited to fix iPad typos. That is my plan to very deliberately handle the make ready procedures. I fully understand the need to safely handle the gun for my safety and the safety of those around me. I just don't like subjectivity in the rules or rules that leave themselves open to different interpretations by different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 From my perspective, it seems pretty simple. When you load the gun, whether it is with a Barney mag or the mag you intend to use, in all divisions that require the safety to be engaged, it SHOULD be engaged immediately after you load a round into the chamber. Why would you wait to right before or even after you have started your holstering of the gun? There is an old saying...There is many a slip between a cup and a lip...my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This appears to be an area of the rule book that might need a little clarification. I plan to make engaging the safety part of my load and make ready routine. I personnally don't consider the handgun to be holstered until it is in the holster and I have removed my hand from it but I don't want to get DQ'd for starting to put the gun in the holster and then engaging the safety.It sounds like you see engaging the safety as an arbitrary rule on par with holster position. There are real safety issues with holstering a short travel, light pull weight trigger without the safety on - a jacket zipper or an untucked shirt in the wrong place at the wrong time and you've just shot yourself in the leg. Instead of worrying about how far you can go towards the holster before engaging the safety without getting in trouble just don't do your make ready on auto pilot. Think about what gun you're using each time and proceed appropriately.Edited to fix iPad typos. That is my plan to very deliberately handle the make ready procedures. I fully understand the need to safely handle the gun for my safety and the safety of those around me. I just don't like subjectivity in the rules or rules that leave themselves open to different interpretations by different people.I don't know man. In this case the rules seem pretty clear compared to some in the book. I certainly didn't feel I interpreted anything when I quoted the rules. The safety has to be engaged on the 2011 when its holstered. I just can't see the argument that having your hand on it makes any difference at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicalflinch Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This appears to be an area of the rule book that might need a little clarification. I plan to make engaging the safety part of my load and make ready routine. I personnally don't consider the handgun to be holstered until it is in the holster and I have removed my hand from it but I don't want to get DQ'd for starting to put the gun in the holster and then engaging the safety.It sounds like you see engaging the safety as an arbitrary rule on par with holster position. There are real safety issues with holstering a short travel, light pull weight trigger without the safety on - a jacket zipper or an untucked shirt in the wrong place at the wrong time and you've just shot yourself in the leg. Instead of worrying about how far you can go towards the holster before engaging the safety without getting in trouble just don't do your make ready on auto pilot. Think about what gun you're using each time and proceed appropriately.Edited to fix iPad typos. That is my plan to very deliberately handle the make ready procedures. I fully understand the need to safely handle the gun for my safety and the safety of those around me. I just don't like subjectivity in the rules or rules that leave themselves open to different interpretations by different people.I don't know man. In this case the rules seem pretty clear compared to some in the book. I certainly didn't feel I interpreted anything when I quoted the rules. The safety has to be engaged on the 2011 when its holstered. I just can't see the argument that having your hand on it makes any difference at all. What does hand contact have to do with anything? Is a car not parked until you get out? Are you not fired until you leave the building? Is it not murder until you take your hand off the knife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 So, if the gun goes in the holster and my hand is still on the gun with the safety off it is a DQ? That is what I think you are saying and as I am reading the rule.Yes exactly. When it's holstered the safety must be on under the example you mentioned.Not that I think you are but shooters may think since having the hand on the gun means they are not ready to start. This in no way says they don't have to have safety engaged. When I run shooters I watch and LISTEN for safeties to get engaged during /after make ready and BEFORE the gun is completely in the holster. Seriously ? Listen for the safeties to be engaged ? You can hear the click ? Who are you ? Clark Kent ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 So, if the gun goes in the holster and my hand is still on the gun with the safety off it is a DQ? That is what I think you are saying and as I am reading the rule.Yes exactly. When it's holstered the safety must be on under the example you mentioned.Not that I think you are but shooters may think since having the hand on the gun means they are not ready to start. This in no way says they don't have to have safety engaged. When I run shooters I watch and LISTEN for safeties to get engaged during /after make ready and BEFORE the gun is completely in the holster. Seriously ? Listen for the safeties to be engaged ? You can hear the click ? Who are you ? Clark Kent ? No just a guy who runs my muffs turned up loud. My safeties on my guns make very distinct clicks as do many others. The ones I can't hear I visually check. Hence look AND listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Been shooting Production with a XDM so worrying about holstering and safety engaged has not been an issue. I have shot some SS so I know you have to engage the safety when holstering. I'm planning to shoot some Limited this winter so I want to be clear on this rule. If I go through make ready and put gun in holster without safety on but my hand has not yet left the pistol, is the handgun holstered and subject to DQ? Am I behind the times? My xdm has no external mechanical safety. I learned long ago to holster the xdm with a loose hand letting the grip safety move out. Is that the safety people are talking about on the xdm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicalflinch Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Been shooting Production with a XDM so worrying about holstering and safety engaged has not been an issue. I have shot some SS so I know you have to engage the safety when holstering. I'm planning to shoot some Limited this winter so I want to be clear on this rule. If I go through make ready and put gun in holster without safety on but my hand has not yet left the pistol, is the handgun holstered and subject to DQ? Am I behind the times? My xdm has no external mechanical safety. I learned long ago to holster the xdm with a loose hand letting the grip safety move out. Is that the safety people are talking about on the xdm? The "primary" safety on an XD is the trigger safety, not the grip safety. You could even pin the safety down or tape it in place like a 2011 and be legal in limited. The grip safety has no bearing on holstering or ready condition per the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Geezul, if you read the thread he is switching to a 2011 for limited. This discussion is not about an XDM. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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