Common Newbe Screw Ups?

[mcb]

I hope this subject is OK here in this area of the board. I have not yet screwed up but I have been reading here in the match screw up section a lot so I can try to avoid the more egregious and dangerous mistakes.

This coming weekend will be my second practical pistol match, I will be shooting over at Crooked Creek Conservation Club here in North East Ohio. I shot my first match about a month ago there. It was a very simple match with four stages but none of the stages required movement or reloads. I expect far more complicated stages this coming weekend and would love to hear from the more experienced shooters about screw up newbies commonly make in matches. I have shot a lot at the range with my XD-40 so I am a decent shot with my firearm. I have practice loading, reloads, and clearing the weapon in my basement with snap caps so I am comfortable with the function of my gun. The lack of a manual safety on the XD-40 (the first gun I have own that does not have a manual safety) has made my very aware of my trigger finger discipline and so I am very conscience of that. But under the pressure of the clock and the more distractive environment of a practical pistol course what else should I being thinking about so I don't make any bad mistakes, especially safety mistakes.

I was just reading j2fast’s thread about the 180 rule and although I knew the muzzle is always pointed down range it was good to read about it and put that more in the forefront of my brain. I could definitely see myself breaking that rule in a complicated stage if I was not thinking about it. So any other suggestion of things to be thinking about to avoid mistakes you guy often seen newbies make would be greatly appreciated. I am going to, first and foremost shoot safely, and then have fun, if I manage to shoot well that will be icing on the cake.

Thanks

mcb

[GRD]

I am going to, first and foremost shoot safely, and then have fun, if I manage to shoot well that will be icing on the cake.

This is the correct attitude for a beginning practical shooter. You really need to be thinking 'safety first', not only on the line but all through the stage no matter what happens. For your first few matches, forget about the competition. Make your primary goal to shoot the stage safely, calmly, deliberately and within the rules. Stay within your comfort zone, not someone else's comfort zone. Don't push yourself to the edge of what you are personally comfortable doing at a speed you are comfortable doing it at.

Stay relaxed and attentive and be constantly aware of your muzzle direction and trigger finger.

I find most new shooters have big problems with task-loading (doing multiple things at once) and the first thing to go out the window is the trigger finger discipline. After that they start pointing the gun past the 180. All of this is at it's worst as soon as things start to fall apart on a stage: you have a malfunction, you run out of ammo at a time you didn't expect to, etc.

I think the solution to this is for a new shooter to really make safety and remaining in control the number one priority.

I think you've got the right attitude and will do fine. Don't sweat it. Just remember that when things start to feel like you're not firmly in control of what's going on, slow it down and solve the problem calmly and deliberately. When you pull the trigger and the gun doesn't go off, that's the point at which you need to bring your safety-consciousness right to the front.

It sounds like alot to deal with, but trust me, after one or two matches you'll find it second nature. Huge fun awaits you!

"You've taken your first step into a larger world"

-- Obi Wan Kenobi

- Gabe

[Kimberkid]

I think the biggest thing that will help new shooters is just trying to relax. The vast majority of new shooters are in all actuality, plenty safe. The thing that turns safe shooters unsafe is the nerves. No one wants to look foolish, especially when they are new to the game. The way to take that out of the equation is to not bother worrying about the scores for your first couple matches. Dont worry about the times, take time to think while you are shooting, and just have fun meeting your new friends and being at the range. Your scores will probably suck using this method, but once you get comfortable with the match experience, it will be easy to speed up and start performing more advanced skills. At the buzzer your brain is gonna dump a small pharmacy into your bloodstream, so just chill out, take your time, and do everything in the simplest way possible.

If you have done some dryfire beforehand and are comfortable with the gun and its operation, you are way ahead of the newbie curve.

You will also see some upper level shooters going at a speed you cant fathom and engaging the stages with potentially complex strategies. Do things the easiest way you can find. Some people find it boring to shoot from Box A, move to Box B, move to Box C, but do that for your first 2 or 3 matches and it'll calm the nerves and by the time your 5th match rolls around, shooting on the move and from wierd positions wont seem too bad.

Best of luck, and shoot em in the middle

[mcb]

Thanks for the replies,

I would have to say the biggest think I am looking forward to in up coming match is not shooting fast but just the requirement to reload as part of the competition. I have shot a lot of skeet, trap and sporting clays in my time but was always disappointed that none of the clays sports I found required timely reloads. This is one of the biggest drawing point’s practical pistol shooting had for me. So beyond being safe I am looking forward to just shooting the targets and getting to reload and continue shooting as part of the course of fire.

Score does not matter much to me. Last time I was allowed to shoot the course of fire twice and was pleased to see that my scores increase on all the stages from my first try to my second try. If I get a chance to shoot the course twice this time that all I ask from my scores is that they get a little bit better from the first to the second time even if it's DFL to DFL+1

I have actually spent a good bit of time just practicing the clearing the weapon at the end of a stage. I start with a few snap caps in my gun with one in the chamber. Drop the partial magazine, quickly putting it in my magazine pouch, open the slide and show a clear weapon, closing the slide, dropping the hammer and re-holstering. That was very new to me last time and I am sure it showed. I did not mind look like a newbie but I wanted to make the clearing action at the end of the stage second nature for safety.

Thanks again guys for the great advice I am really looking forward to this weekend.

mcb

[standles]

Ok here are some others:

It is TAP rack bang... Not... Rack click... Rack Click... @^&$%#(!@(* .TAP rack bang.

Always ensure your mags are seated before signal and with every reload.

Ensure all your mags a loaded to capacity that are on your belt. It embarasses you when you shott through the first mag and had only 5 rounds or so in the next.

Ensure you get a firm full grip on the pistol while it is in the holster to avoid tossing it downrange.

Safety comes off after muzzle is pointed at target.

Finger goes into Trigger guard only when firing the shot.

If using optics ensure they are on at the make ready command

Realize that "Do you understand the course of fire" is mostly a rehtorical question. The mind you have at that moment may but the one that takes over at the buzzer will not.

etc. etc. etc.

[BSeevers]

Read back posts on this subject will also help a lot

Helps for almost all other subjects too

[GRD]

It is TAP rack bang... Not... Rack click... Rack Click... @^&$%#(!@(* .TAP rack bang.

LOL!

[mcb]

It is TAP rack bang... Not... Rack click... Rack Click... @^&$%#(!@(* .TAP rack bang.

LOL!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While were on the subject of reloading. When practicing what do you guys put in your magazines? At first I was just putting a single snap cap in each magazine and drilling. Than after a trip to the range I realize that a magazine with one round (or snap cap) is a lot easier to put into the gun then a magazine with 10 rounds at least if the slide is still shut. I have since been loading 9 empty cases in the magazine and then putting a snap cap in as the last dummy cartridges. This works OK but you cant feed the empties and snap caps are a bit expensive to have enough to even fill two or three magazine let along 5 or 6. Any suggestions?

mcb

[shred]

If you reload, you can crank out primer and powderless dummy rounds in no time. You have to take extra extra care to verify no live ones get mixed in

[Stuck in C]

One big difference between practical shooting and other shooting disciplines is the movement involved, and that seems to be where most of the safety related or other screwups occur, especially if your not used to shooting or manipulating a weapon while moving. Its finally dawning on me in my 3rd year of USPSA that the way to move faster is to be smooth with no wasted motion, rather than trying to go as fast as you can and be out of control, or as my dear mother used to say: running around like a chicken with its head cut off. So, as a new shooter, work on smooth controlled movement. Speed will come naturally. "Smooth is fast"; and safer.

[EricW]

Not shooting like me is good for an automatic one-level bump in your classification level.

[XRe]

Not shooting like me is good for an automatic one-level bump in your classification level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now THAT'S self confidence!

[standles]

As for loading the mags for dryfire and reload training I have ~50 rnds of ammo that have no primer (filled it in with red gasket goop) and a hole drilled through the case. gives the weight and feel of a real loaded mag and feeds like my actual reloads.

Steven

[eric nielsen]

I really like to use these instead of mags full of dummy rounds:

BLUE SAFETY MAGS

Especially for practicing "load the gun then shoot" stages, which I think is really hazardous to practice any other way. I'd rather use an empty mag, have the slide lock back, and "pretend" the slide chambered a round.

I've found live rounds mixed into my box of dummy rounds 3 times. One of those times I already had a live round in the mag before I discovered the mix-up. It's amazing what you're brain will do to you when you come home from the range rushed or sleepy.

For your first few matches, you can just remind yourself using the same words the RO will shout if you're getting close to an error - these words are "Muzzle!" and "Finger!"

You can reenforce the "finger" part by putting a little piece of skateboard tape on the frame where your finger goes for everything except engaging targets.

[XRe]

The solution for me for preventing live rounds from mixing w/ my dummies was to keep the dummies in a 50rd MTM box. A quick visual inspection reveals any with primers - and I'd inspect upon using them, and upon putting them up for the day, just to be anal...

[GRD]

Keep the dummies separate, and I also color them up with permanent markers so they are instantly recognizable from any angle.

- Gabe

[Harmon]

dont break the 180,

dont shoot thyself.

dont shoot at a steel(several times) miss, then shoot some other targets and come back to the steel.

dont shoot any paper target thats white.

if the stage is virginia count, SHOOT A s.

if the stage is comstock, SHOOT A s.

a miss should not be acceptable.

thats just some of the stuff i learned in my trek.

[boo radley]

As a newbie, myself, I am making (unfortunately I have to use the present tense) mistakes left and right, but none have been safety-related.

They seem to fall into 3 categories -- those related to gun handling, those related to lack of experience with competition, and those related to rushing from being caught up in the heat of the moment.

It's the last that infuriate me -- I'll finish a stage, and completely forget to shoot a target, for example. Or, if it's "2 in T1/T2/T3 then 2 in T3/ T2/ T1," I'll put 4 in T1, T2, but only 2 in T3....Similarly, I'll rush and not see the sights, nor call my shots, and end up with one A and one mike on the upper A. The good thing is, as I get a little more experience, things are starting to slow-down, and I'm becoming more aware, paradoxically, in less clock time!

The second category, I don't worry about too much: these are mistakes that I hopefully will correct with experience -- for example, I'll stand in one spot and try to ping these hellacious cornering shots on steel, simply because I can see 'em, rather than move, and get an easier shot, and I'm going to have to move *anyway.* That kinda stuff.

Finally, I'm working to get better with gun handling. I shoot a 1911, and have started running into jams, now that I reload. , and have to get quicker at clearing. Or, if I shoot an IDPA-style match, I'll get flummoxed by the 'reloading with retention,' or having to wear a cover garment, since I dry-fire and practice for IPSC. Heh -- nothing like having the mag slip out of my hand, and go flying towards the berm, during a reload.

Anyway -- my $.02, as someone who's simply a single step or two farther down that path than you.

[ima45dv8]

mcb,

I like your approach. A couple of things come to mind.

Don't scare the RO.

Tell yourself that in the event of a malfunction, your finger is going to come out of the trigger guard just like when reloading and moving while not engaging targets (this one trips up many "seasoned" shooters, too). See GRD's comments on Task-loading. "Oh Shit!" drills are going happen; just remember your finger.

Consider asking for help in formulating your game plan early, then stick to it. I used to screw myself into the ground by seeing someone do something a different way than I had planned, right before my turn to shoot, and then I would be rethinking my plan as I stepped into the start position. That's a great way to get "lost" during a CoF.

If you get "lost" during the CoF, don't turn around to see where you just came from.

Ask lots of questions and carefully consider the answers. Some will be better than others and soon you'll get a feel for whose advice to seek.

One last thing -- Don't scare the RO.

...Mark

[mcb]

I take it your a Range Officer there ima45dv8? I will definitly try not to scare the RO or anyone else including myself. I really do appriciate all the good advice and suggestions. harmongreer's suggestion "dont shoot thyself." stuck a funny bone but all the advice was good and appriciated. I'll let you guys know how it goes Sunday.

Thanks

mcb

[Nemo]

We all practice our draw to take it to that next level, especially when starting... Then get to the match and there's the stage with the "pick gun from table and engage..." procedure. The most common screw up you see on these is when the shooter squishes the gun at the same time pressing the mag-release against the table... bring gun up to target... BANG and mag falls to the ground!! Learn to pick your gun from a table so this doesn't happen to you.

The one I'm constantly in battle with my kids is "shooting by ear". Shooters in front of you go through a COF and their "cadence" (hate the concept ) sounded great, so you go out there and try to "play the same tune".

I don't know where was that I read that "You can only shoot as fast as you can see."

Oh and DON'T SCARE THE RO.

Get out there, pay attention and HAVE FUN!

[ima45dv8]

I take it your a Range Officer there ima45dv8?  I will definitly try not to scare the RO or anyone else including myself.  I really do appriciate all the good advice and suggestions.  harmongreer's suggestion "dont shoot thyself." stuck a funny bone but all the advice was good and appriciated.  I'll let you guys know how it goes Sunday.

Thanks

mcb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I am. And one of my favorite things is running new shooters. Especially when it's their first match. It's too cool to see the expression on folks faces and see the grin stretching so far around it almost meets in the back!

You need to put some effort into these things:

- Walk before you run

- build on your experiences

- be safe

You don't have to put any effort into these things:

- Have a blast

- meet great, new friends whose kinship will likely last the rest of your life (and mine)

- convincing yourself you just have to get a Super1050!

...Mark

[standles]

As a newbie, myself, I am making (unfortunately I have to use the present tense) mistakes left and right, but none have been safety-related.

They seem to fall into 3 categories -- those related to gun handling, those related to lack of experience with competition, and those related to rushing from being caught up in the heat of the moment.

It's the last that infuriate me -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boo..

A little advice on this issue that helped me. VISUALIZATION IS KEY TO THIS>

When you are doing the walkthrough decide how you are going to shoot the stage.

DO NOT LOOK AT THE NOSHOOTS. THEY DON"T EXIST IN YOUR WORLD. YOUR NOT GOING TO SHOOT THEM. YOU SEE ONLY A ZONE (0 DOWN ) HITS.

{said in my best hypnotists voice}

Seriously you mind does not know the difference between a good vizualized stage and one that is occuring real ife. Use this to you advantage. Before you shoot a stage you should be able to close your eyes and describe each targets location and how/where you are going to shoot it from. The location of your reloads etc. etc.

If you want a scary example email Matt Burkett and pick a stage from a match he competed in during a year time frame. He can call the targets to a tee and tell you where the pitfalls are/were.

In closing visualization is key and we all have done it at one point in our lives or another. I won't slip into the locker room humor section but you know what I mean by "vizualization techniques". If not then check out the thread on the Apr cover of Dillons Catalog. {this explanation credited to shooter whom I will let remain nameless for now}

Steven

[ima45dv8]

Boo..

A little advice on this issue that helped me. VISUALIZATION IS KEY TO THIS>

When you are doing the walkthrough decide how you are going to shoot the stage.

DO NOT LOOK AT THE NOSHOOTS. THEY DON"T EXIST IN YOUR WORLD. YOUR NOT GOING TO SHOOT THEM. YOU SEE ONLY A ZONE (0 DOWN ) HITS.

{said in my best hypnotists voice}

Seriously you mind does not know the difference between a good vizualized stage and one that is occuring real ife. 

I'm glad you brought this up!

2 weeks ago we were shooting a stage that had you start in a box/really small shooting area, from which you had to engage 2 pepper poppers from that spot only. You were to then proceed to the larger shooting area B which began about 10' downrange and engage targets as they became available. The two poppers were separated out far enough to each side to make for a big, swinging transition from the left one to the right one. And the layout sort of forced you to shoot the left one first, because you needed to enter the larger shooting area in the far right corner (easier to leave on the right popper since you were going to the right). Sorry for the long explanation, but hang with me.

One the first shooters downs the left popper, pivots to his right and instead of engaging the right-hand popper, does a brain-fade and charges off for Area B. As he was entering Area B, he sees the popper still standing, grabs a handful Whoa! and has to back peddle to Area A to shoot it. It was hilarious! He was no Newbie, either. He's been doing this for 20+ years.

Never ones to forgo the opportunity to add insult to injury, we start teasing the shit out him for it. One of our other friends gets in Area A and jumps forward and backwards, in and out, acting like he couldn't make up his mind about just how far he should run before backing up and shooting the second popper, and generally laughing his ass off (OK, we all were). He was even asking the first shooter for advice on where to stop and back up. Note: This is normal, predictable treatment within our little band of miscreants.

A few minutes later, the comedian goes to the line for his turn. At the start signal he draws and shoots the popper on his left, pivots to his right, and promptly runs over into Area B! With the most priceless look of surprise and confusion, he backs up to Area A and shoots the second popper before finishing his run. We were all laughing so hard I thought I was going to piss myself.

It gets better (worse?) -- two more people on our squad did exactly the same thing!!! The first guy gets a pass for having a normal case of cerebral flatulence, but the other three talked themselves into it.

Morale of the story: We should all carefully follow Steven's advice and not program ourselves to screw up!

[ParaJoe]

I learned this weekend to always press check the gun to MAKE SURE there is a round chambered before starting the stage. After I watched the Burner's tapes I did this religiously and then fell out of the habit. It bit me in the ass hard last match. Never again. Take your time on the steel. I shot a stage recently where an array had 4 small steel plates at about 15-20 yards and then three papers. I watched everyone hose the papers and then attempt to hose the steel and miss quite a few times. Allow yourself to get the correct sight picture and hit them the first time.