MHitchcock Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I am sorry if this has been addressed before, I didn't see anything on a search. I am working on shooting with both eyes open in dry fire. As a preface, I have very good vision in both eyes. Most of what I have read advocates focusing on the front sight like you do with one eye. I can acquire a sight picture doing this but it seems to make transitions much slower since it has the effect of making the target appear as if I am crossing my eyes. On the other hand, if i focus on target (at least I think thats what I'm doing) I can acquire a sight picture as quickly as with one eye. My front sight doesn't look blurry when I do this and I can easily shut out the second set of sights. Is this a viable way to shoot with both eyes open? I seem to be able to get on target quickly and it allows me to keep everything in the foreground in focus like I am shooting with an optic. I am going to the range today to see how far I can stay accurate doing this. Any input is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Quite a few views, no responses yet... Tried it out at the range. I seem to be able to get good reliable groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 There are a lot of good threads on this. A bit more searching and you will find it. I dunno how to send a link to them or I'd help you out. It's a very personal thing. I couldn't do it without using a bit of clear tape to obscure one eye. No right answers on it, just a matter of experimenting to find what works best for you. Plenty of really good shooters out there that squint an eye or use tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 I found a few threads but didn't see one comparing target focus vs front sight focus shooting both eyes open. I will do some more looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The most common sentiment is that you use a target focus for close in or easier shots and a hard front sight focus for farther or more difficult shots where sight alignment is critical. Where that break point is will be very subjective and may change as skill progresses. I really can't do the wealth of information on this subject justice. Our host, mr. Enos breaks it down quite well in his book Perhaps that would be a great place to get some more info on your question. You can get great info on here but it can be pretty staccato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 I may have to do that. Thank you for the input, that makes a bit more sense to me. I only tested out to 15 yds at the range today, but I had good groups focusing on target. I'm going to try applying it at my match Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper74 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'm maybe not understanding your question, but I think that's what people recommend for transitions.. to focus on your target then allow your gun to swing into position where you can pick up your sight picture. Works for me atleast, trying to follow my sight one eye or two eyes open is really tough. Focusing then bringing the gun to my eyes is so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 It's possible that I was misunderstanding what I was reading/watching previously. My understanding is that there are two approaches (points of focus) to shooting with both eyes open. Focusing on the target gets you two sets of sights in your vision, focusing on the front sight the target has a double. Shooters I talked to said they focus on front sight. I can do it but it is much faster (at least at this point) for me to focus on the target and ignore the second set of sights. Focusing on the target I can keep a good enough sight picture to keep groups tight at at least 15 yds (furthest distance I tried tonight). I could see how focusing on the front sight would be more important for longer shots to make sure your sight alignment is absolutely perfect or if you were bullseye shooting. But I think I'll just squint or use one eye for those shots and focus on my front sight when those come up, focus on the target for the rest of it. I may be completely wrong, I am new to shooting and shooting sports. This is why I was asking about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I am sorry if this has been addressed before, I didn't see anything on a search. I am working on shooting with both eyes open in dry fire. As a preface, I have very good vision in both eyes. Most of what I have read advocates focusing on the front sight like you do with one eye. I can acquire a sight picture doing this but it seems to make transitions much slower since it has the effect of making the target appear as if I am crossing my eyes. On the other hand, if i focus on target (at least I think thats what I'm doing) I can acquire a sight picture as quickly as with one eye. My front sight doesn't look blurry when I do this and I can easily shut out the second set of sights. Is this a viable way to shoot with both eyes open? I have done it for about 25 years. Some people can see this way, looking "through" the sights to the target, some people can't. It's called "indirect sighting" and it has it's uses. You don't focus on the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I may have to do that. Thank you for the input, that makes a bit more sense to me. I only tested out to 15 yds at the range today, but I had good groups focusing on target. First time I tried it my 15 yard groups got smaller too. At 25 yards, not much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Most people's brains aren't used to processing the kind of visual input one gets when looking down a gun's sights with a target behind them, until they get used to it through hours of doing it. This is one of the things dry fire is good for. You can hold that gun up and look at a sight picture all day if you can stand it, with no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Put a piece of scotch tape over the center of the lens of the non-dominant eye. In live fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I hear that works for some but for those with good distance vision in the non-dominant eye, it seems like they would be crippling themselves. Oh well, whatever works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Look closely at the cover of Enos' book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 I can obtain both sight pictures and discern what is what without occluding an eye. I just find that using target focus and having only the sights doubled in my visual field is both accurate and much faster than focusing on the front sight post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsteimel Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 With iron sights it's ideal to see the sights clearly which, if you don't have perfect vision, will probably blur the target. If you're seeing 2 sets of sights, it may be that you are shooting with the wrong eye. Sounds weird, but if a right handed shooter tries to see the sights with his right eye and is left-eye dominant, that causes a problem. I might suggest to find out which is your dominant eye and if you're cross-eye dominant, make an adjustment to hour pistol shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm not cross-eye dominant. I shot 5 classifier stages today using what I was talking about. I can consistently get a good sight picture and did pretty well, minus triple choice. It seems my dry fire didn't save me from throwing the stage with a mike on middle target shooting weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 If you're seeing 2 sets of sights, it may be that you are shooting with the wrong eye. Sounds weird, but if a right handed shooter tries to see the sights with his right eye and is left-eye dominant, that causes a problem. I might suggest to find out which is your dominant eye and if you're cross-eye dominant, make an adjustment to hour pistol shooting. Actually, when using target focus and shooting with both eyes open, you will always see two sets of sights. When shooting fast you just may not be conscious of the second image. Shooting two eyed with target focus is totally natural. You do it thousands of times a day and started doing it when you were a baby. Many really great shooters shoot this way. Of it works for you, don't fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 No help but I sure can't do it, heck I can't hardly use binoculars either... It doesn't help being cross eye dominant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 How I see when the sun goes down and the range lighting goes on is the most significant external factor in my Thursday night match performance. Closing my left eye is really bad in those lighting conditions because my right eye is affected the most by the low light and it's bad as a single source of visual input, so I have to work it out and shoot what I think I'm seeing with both eyes. Other shooters are affected even more so that equalizes things somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 So... To start, the one eye, two eye, sights/target thing is so personal, that it is really hard to "instruct" someone on what they should do. However, I can tell you this... You NEED clear sight focus MOST of the time in uspsa. I've shot both eyes open since day 1 with a pistol. It just seemed right. I shot skeet competitively before pistol, and both eyes open is basically a requirement if you want to be successful. You don't need to over think this, but you need to understand what your eyes are doing. Focus vs convergence. When I'm addressing shots, my eyes CONVERGE on the target, but FOCUS on the sights. Ie, I see one target, but its blury.... and technically I see two sets of sights, but they are clear. The two sets of sights is a non issue if you have a strong eye dominance, because your brain will choose to only take information from one of them. Ideally, during transitions, your focus AND convergence snaps to the next target, until your sights are in place, then sight focus immediately occurs once again. Imo, TRUE target focus should almost never occur in USPSA (while your shooting). I really shouldn't ever watch holes appear in a target, unless I'm literally point shooting in a very awkward position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrojc Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I spent endless hours dry firing, trying to shoot with both eyes open. Then I tried it at a match.....not too bad inside 10 yds on metrics, but the plate rack was another story. I could focus on one sight, but there were two of every plate and I kept shooting at the wrong one. I now use both eyes when shooting paper up close, but always one eye on steel or anything with no shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 I ran speedy steel vii with a incredibly slow draw in 5.05 at the super classifier Not sure of what I'm doing specifically, but it works for me. I see two sights, one target. But can see sights clearly *shrug*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejez Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 the only thing that seems to work for me is squinting the non-dominant eye and then slowly opening it. Maybe over time I will be able to start with both open, but right now when I do that I see 2 sights and like 4 targets. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I'm not cross-eye dominant. I shot 5 classifier stages today using what I was talking about. I can consistently get a good sight picture and did pretty well, minus triple choice. It seems my dry fire didn't save me from throwing the stage with a mike on middle target shooting weak hand. A front sight focus would most likely saved you that Mike. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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