Both eyes open

[Dwight Stearns]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

[rocket99]

I have been working on target focus with both eyes open, been a tough transition for a bolt gun guy

[rowdyb]

Just shoot with one eye open and the other closed or squinted.

[BGREID]

The trick is to use your dominant eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target, just like with a red dot sight.

[Ssanders224]

The trick is to use your dominant eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target, just like with a red dot sight.

That would be a pretty neat trick.

However, humans do not have the ability to use each eye independently of each other. Neither do we have the ability (pretty sure no ones ever done it) to focus each eye independently of each other. So, using "an eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target" is a bit misleading. I feel like folks are going to be on the range giving themselves headaches trying to accomplish this.

What we CAN do with practice (as I explained earlier) is have our eyes converge on one object, and focus on another... so long as they are both in the same line of sight.

Iron sights = target convergence, sight focus.

Dot = target convergence, target focus.

[BGREID]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

[goshimu]

I shoot right hand.

When shooting with a pistol both eyes open I tend to pick up the sight better with my left.

When shooting scoped rifle both eyes I use my right through scope.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 21, 2016 by goshimu

[bountyhunter]

The trick is to use your dominant eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target, just like with a red dot sight.

That would be a pretty neat trick.

However, humans do not have the ability to use each eye independently of each other. Neither do we have the ability (pretty sure no ones ever done it) to focus each eye independently of each other. So, using "an eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target" is a bit misleading. I feel like folks are going to be on the range giving themselves headaches trying to accomplish this.

Been doing it for about 25 years. It's called indirect sighting. The eyes do not have to have visual focus on the sights to "look through" them with attention focus on the sights. They may appear slightly fuzzy, but you certainly can see them, align them, and be aware of them while "mechanical focus" of the eyes is on the target. It sounds more complicated than it is, I started doing it and found it wasy but then I was unaware how difficult it was supposed to be to do it.

[bountyhunter]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

Using a red dot is also what made me start "looking through" the iron sights with eye muscle focus on target. But since I am nearighted, I can use a lense that puts the sights in clear visual focus while the eye is focused )at distance) so I can see a clear sight image OR a clear target depending on which eye my brain pays attention to.

[rocket99]

red dot sights are completely different when compared to pistol sights in my opinion

[Fredfredfred]

I picked up shooting with 2 eyes open many years ago. I have done it so long that I can't tell you how I do it. I do remember when I first started. I would sit for hours on my deer stand with a scoped rifle and I remember looking at a object like a tree or something, through my scope eye, then focus on the same object with my other eye. It was almost impossible at first, but every day I would try it. Over time it got to where I could see the same thing with both eyes. A few years later I picked up a pistol for the first time and by then I had all read learned to shoot with both eyes open with a shotgun and a rifle.

This may or may not help you, but its the way I learned. As far as focusing on a front sight or target, I really have no idea. I look at the target and I shoot the target and I hit the target.

Try the scope thing and see if it helps. I'm sure you could do it with a monocular if you don't have a scope.

[Ssanders224]

The trick is to use your dominant eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target, just like with a red dot sight.

That would be a pretty neat trick.

However, humans do not have the ability to use each eye independently of each other. Neither do we have the ability (pretty sure no ones ever done it) to focus each eye independently of each other. So, using "an eye to look through the sights and the other eye looks at the target" is a bit misleading. I feel like folks are going to be on the range giving themselves headaches trying to accomplish this.

Been doing it for about 25 years. It's called indirect sighting. The eyes do not have to have visual focus on the sights to "look through" them with attention focus on the sights. They may appear slightly fuzzy, but you certainly can see them, align them, and be aware of them while "mechanical focus" of the eyes is on the target. It sounds more complicated than it is, I started doing it and found it wasy but then I was unaware how difficult it was supposed to be to do it.

"Visual focus"... "mechanical focus"..... I'm no Ophthalmologist but again, I feel like that is confusing the issue.

We get to focus our eyes at one distance, period. If something is fuzzy, it is not in focus. If something is crisp, and you can see the details, it is in focus.

The sights "appearing fuzzy" may be OK for a lot of the shooting we do in USPSA, especially at all but the top levels of competition, but I assure you it is possible to see the sights clear and crisp 85-90% of the time, and when that happens, scoring will improve.

[Ssanders224]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

[BGREID]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

I have no trouble calling shots. I may not be explaining it well but, I have been doing it so long it just seems natural.

[Ssanders224]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

I have no trouble calling shots. I may not be explaining it well but, I have been doing it so long it just seems natural.

10-4.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Or at least fall into the "shooting at the level you desire to be at" category I mentioned earlier.

[BGREID]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

I have no trouble calling shots. I may not be explaining it well but, I have been doing it so long it just seems natural.

10-4.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Or at least fall into the "shooting at the level you desire to be at" category I mentioned earlier.

Of course when I have to make a difficult shot the focus does have to change some, but both eyes stay open.

[Ssanders224]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

I have no trouble calling shots. I may not be explaining it well but, I have been doing it so long it just seems natural.

10-4.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Or at least fall into the "shooting at the level you desire to be at" category I mentioned earlier.

Of course when I have to make a difficult shot the focus does have to change some, but both eyes stay open.

Ah, so there IS another level of focus... used when a greater level of accuracy is needed??

So what if that level of focus was used much more often? What if you could employ that level of focus at the same speed as the other?

Would scoring not improve??

And I agree. I'd never advocate closing an eye. Both eyes open, all the time.

[BGREID]

That's basically the same thing I said, never meant to say I had perfect focus on anything. Same as a red dot sight, look through the sight at the target. Been doing since I was a kid.

I see what you meant now. I assumed you were implying points of focus.

However, if we are talking about anything more than close distance point shooting, shooting irons is NOT the same as a red dot sight.

You actually should have perfect focus on something (the sights) a lot of the time.

If your method of "looking through" iron sights works for you, and you are shooting/competing at the level you desire to be at, then that's awesome, seriously.

But you will most likely be able to call more shots, and shoot better points if you find the ability to get a crisp picture of the sights.

I have no trouble calling shots. I may not be explaining it well but, I have been doing it so long it just seems natural.

10-4.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Or at least fall into the "shooting at the level you desire to be at" category I mentioned earlier.

Of course when I have to make a difficult shot the focus does have to change some, but both eyes stay open.

Ah, so there IS another level of focus... used when a greater level of accuracy is needed??

So what if that level of focus was used much more often? What if you could employ that level of focus at the same speed as the other?

Would scoring not improve??

And I agree. I'd never advocate closing an eye. Both eyes open, all the time.

I have no trouble shooting A's, what more do I need?

[mpeltier]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

[dynamicalflinch]

A copious amount of dry fire in your basement should get most of the eye issues squared away. You may have some small vision issues that would not otherwise affect daily activities but may hinder pistol shooting, such as a slightly lazy eye (only an example) or both eyes see well but one is slightly more near-sighted than the other.

Dry fire should square the eyes away, but if not a visit to an eye doctor that likes shooting may be worth the trip. We have an eye doctor in town here that has a blue gun for that purpose, and often makes glasses for customers with a regular lens in one side and a 1.1x power lens in the other. Even if you think you don't have those issues, the fact that you are seeing the target twice (crossed eyes effect) implies a dominance issue.

All that said, my eyes do strange things. I focus my right eye on the front sight, and my left on the target... Don't ask.

[Dwight Stearns]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

[mpeltier]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

[JOThompson]

I use clear tape as well. Would like to someday learn to do it without the tape.

[Dwight Stearns]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

[Ssanders224]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

I don't think you'll find very many "top level" uspsa shooters that will tell you they use target focus most of the time (with irons).

And no.... If I'm focused on my sights and "yank" the trigger, my mind will register the sight movement before the shot.