Both eyes open

[mpeltier]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

I don't think you'll find very many "top level" uspsa shooters that will tell you they use target focus most of the time (with irons).

And no.... If I'm focused on my sights and "yank" the trigger, my mind will register the sight movement before the shot.

You are correct.

[mpeltier]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

"You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot."

​Absolutely incorrect. The feedback from your sight alignment at the instant you break the shot IS the only way you will call the shot.

You obviously have your mind made up and thats great, but you keep putting out things I never said and trying to prove your case on them. Good luck to you...im out.

[Dwight Stearns]

My apologies to the OP (Matthew). This thread may have gone differently than intended. I'm just trying to bring out that we are all different and we all see and use our eyes differently. Some are able to shoot two eyed and use front sight focus without problems. Some are not. Front sight focus is a good way but not the only way. If you are doing well with target focus, go with it. Practice it. There are really good shooters that use front sight focus. Some that use target focus. And some that say they use an intermediate focus. They all work. I saw a video where Doug Koenig said that when he shoots iron sights he uses target focus out to about 20 yards. There are many other great shooters that do this. As you said in your OP, you said you see the front sight clearly even when focused on the target. That's all you need. Focus on the target but concentrate on the sights. After that just break the shot without disturbing the sights. The Shot will be accurate.

[MHitchcock]

All good. I've just kind of been just watching the thread recently lol. What I'm doing is working for me, I can see the sights perfectly *Shrug*.

[CrashDodson]

You use 3 types of focus in USPSA....Target focus for the 7 yards and closer...your just looking through the gun. Somewhere between target and front sight focus for targets maybe out to 15 yards. Your sights will be a little blurry. For difficult or the long distance shots you will have a front sight focus....where you acquire your target and shift focus to the front sight...this of course is all happening very fast.

I have some eye dominance issues and with a hard..crystal clear front sight...I get two targets in my vision. This is distracting enough that i use scotch tape on my glasses over my non dominant eye. Just enough tape to block the front sight from my left eye but not effect peripheral. This way on difficult shots I can get a hard front sight focus without getting double targets. It works for me. Some people can get a hard front sight focus and not have the double vision issues I have.

[CrashDodson]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

I don't think you'll find very many "top level" uspsa shooters that will tell you they use target focus most of the time (with irons).

And no.... If I'm focused on my sights and "yank" the trigger, my mind will register the sight movement before the shot.

If you think top level shooters are running around with crystal clear front sight focus on anything but very tough shots....that is incorrect.

[Ssanders224]

Let's see, he is shooting a stage that has a weak hand only phase and you blame his only Mike on target focus? Oooookaaay.

Absolutely, shooting weak hand its even more critical to have a front sight focus to insure an accurate shot. Very easy to prove on the practice range.

I guess trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it. I stand corrected.

I never said trigger manipulation and anticipation had nothing to do with it, but without a front sight focus, he could not truly identify and call his shot, which would/could have in all likelihood saved him a mike. It all starts with the front sight focus, everything else beyond that is executing the fundamentals based on that input. without a front sight focus a mike was impossible to avoid.

How is it then that many top level shooters can use target focus and somehow avoid mikes? Of the two, sight picture and trigger press, the trigger is the most important. You can have a perfect sight picture but anticipate the shot and yank the trigger and you will have no idea where the shot went. It's impossible to call the shot. On the other hand have a bad sight picture but perfect trigger press and it is easy to call the location of the shot. The perfect front sight focus crowd don't seem to realize that it is possible (even easy for many) to focus on the spot you want the bullet to hit and still see a good sight picture. Yes even good enough for head shots at 25 yards. Now back to the weak hand mike, most don't practice the weak hand like they should. The timing between the mental command to fire and the actual shot is different from strong hand or free style shots. The subconscious anticipates what it is accustomed to and the shooter pulls the gun down and away from the shooting hand before the shot fired. To say his mike is absolutely caused by lack of front sight focus is doing him no favors.

I don't think you'll find very many "top level" uspsa shooters that will tell you they use target focus most of the time (with irons).

And no.... If I'm focused on my sights and "yank" the trigger, my mind will register the sight movement before the shot.

If you think top level shooters are running around with crystal clear front sight focus on anything but very tough shots....that is incorrect.

It wasn't an assumption, or just my personal opinion.

It's based on talking/shooting with/ trying to compete with many of them.

Shooting the amount of points it takes to be competitive at the top is hard. You better be doing EVERYTHING you can to make sure the As land.

[rowdyb]

Funnily enough I've been told by two different national champions it's a "dirty little secret" that the top shooters are using the sights less than the rest of us quite often. With their number of reps and the index they have more often than not the shot will go where they are looking. Look at A, see enough of sights, shoot A.

They aren't "seeing perfect" they're "seeing enough", which seems is much less than what us regular people need.

[BlaineD]

Anything that will help you train your brain which eye you are looking through will work, if combined with practice. Lightly quinting non dominant eye, a piece of scotch tape over the lens. I've even seen someone put a dot on the off lens with a marker.

After a bit, you brain will adjust and will know.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 19, 2016 by BlaineD

[johnbu]

Funnily enough I've been told by two different national champions it's a "dirty little secret" that the top shooters are using the sights less than the rest of us quite often. With their number of reps and the index they have more often than not the shot will go where they are looking. Look at A, see enough of sights, shoot A.

They aren't "seeing perfect" they're "seeing enough", which seems is much less than what us regular people need.

I can believe that. But as a novice, no way will it work for me. My index wobbles, trigger press wiggles the gun, grip on draw is inconsistent, etc etc. Maybe after a half million shots fired training with a purpose (as opposed to my current inefficient method) ... but for now I really have to focus on the front sight hard for all but the closest of close targets.

[mw365]

For what it's worth, I shoot with both eyes open, and some days I have trouble with doubling that just becomes distracting. As has been noted, I can close my non-dominant eye (left for me) and clear it up, but then it will become distracting again in a few seconds.

I find that if I turn my head slightly towards my non-dominant eye, it is helpful. Your nose starts to come into your field of view, and for whatever reason, it helps me in this situation.

[target4fun]

A few things on this topic that I have learned that might help you. 

Double vision is something done in your brain and not with your eyes.  I have discussed this at great length with several optometrists, that being said you can train out of it.  I used to have this problem as a child, I got over it and never see two sets of sights yet having being a firearms instructor this was something that always bothered me for students as it is a very common problem.  

The chap stick, lip stick, or scotch tape over the eye works but doesnt do well for your depth perception which is useful in action shooting, if your doing strictly target shooting or shooting that doesnt require movement much stay and shoot and not move and shoot then you this might be a quick solution.  For a self defense and move and shooting where you want to see more targets and depth perception then I would advise you train out of it.  The million dollar question is how?

This is something you can do at the range & in a dry fire at home setting.  What you need to do is get a sight picture & alignment then wink/blink your non-dominate eye if that doesnt work you can blink for longer meaning leaving the eye shut until you get a focus on the dominate eye and focus on that sight picture and ignore and dont focus on the "other" sights that aren't there when your eye is closed.  Having used this method I have been able to get students to train out of seeing 2 sight pictures. Every once in a while you might have to blink that eye but eventually it will get better (with practice) and eventually go away as it is something in our brain and not anything going on with the eyes. 

Once you master this then you can start working on the skill of knowing how much sight picture & sight alignment and where to focus on depending on the target distance, skill, size of targets.  That is the skill that is one of the hardest to learn... when to slow down, when to focus more, this is assuming there is no flinching issue. 

Hope this helps yall.