Nightops Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Why does the p320 seem more common in production than the p226? I would figure the metal frame 226 with DA/SA trigger would be a similar setup to the Stock II and CZ Shadow's that are the gamer guns of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I hate, HAAAAATE DA/SA guns. I don't care if the CZ has a 3#/1.5# pull possible. Stupid long reset (unless fixed on the CZ). The 226/229 are tall guns, high bore axis. The grip panels (left side specifically) do not agree with my hands, E2 grip is better though. The 320 is an all around good production gun with growing aftermarket support. Not to mention, it's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 The CZ has a stupid long reset? The 320 also has a high bore axis. I think there are other reasons why the DA/SA sig's havent taken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 CZ's have a very short reset with trigger work done to them. If anyone doesn't think so they haven't shot one with a CGW pro kit or a CZ Custom trigger job. If you want a DA/SA gun I believe CZ (or similar) are the only option. I didn't care for the 320 much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightops Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Gotcha, so the 226 even with an SRT still doesn't have a good enough trigger and has a high bore axis, and the 320 is cheap enough for people that don't want to buy a gun tailored to compete with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guns_and_labs Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Gotcha, so the 226 even with an SRT still doesn't have a good enough trigger and has a high bore axis, and the 320 is cheap enough for people that don't want to buy a gun tailored to compete with. The triggers on the P226 Legions are pretty darned good, and the triggers on any P226 from Grayguns are, too. The reset is about the same as my 1911, not as good as the SVIs. The high bore axis is not really a hindrance to me, as the gun comes right back to the target for the next shot. But, the first DA shot is perceived by many as a problem. The 320, like the Glock and the XDm, is nice and consistent, has a good price point, and fits the hand nicely. I don't have one, but then I don't shoot Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Funny, when I hold my P226 up next to my 1911 the barrel and beavertail appear to be in the exact same locations. I guess the bore axis on the 1911 is too high as well, they'll never catch on for competition. I'd say the problem is SIG, not the firearms they sell. If they had the P320 in 2010, it would have been the hot pistol instead of the M&P. If they made the P226 USPSA now, they might sell a few more. They're just not in step with the trends in USPSA production. The first thing I would like to see is better parts support. I'm shooting a P226 USPSA in production this year, I probably need my head examined as SIG is constantly out of parts when I call to order things to fix my customers guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) Nice thing about the sport, you pick what gives you an advantage...real or perceived. The reset distance is long with the Classic line, unless factory parts are replaced or worked over. Short stroking the trigger before reset happens often for me trying to shoot them fast. You can install a short trigger, but that just moves everything to the rear. The SRT is needed to reduce reset distance, however does the trigger stop or continue forward after the sear resets? That is my issue with CZ's. The sear reset is short, but the trigger continues forward another 1/4 inch or so. Maybe it's an 1/8th. Yes, CZ custom now has a fix for that too. Either way, I had a tuned SP01 and it never got passed the "testing" phase. Sold it before I shot it in a match. Hated it. Others love them. Some GM's win with them. Still doesn't suit me. Other than that, and these are clearly just my opinions, I have no idea why they are not as common as striker fired guns. Barrel length? Sight radius? Edited May 3, 2016 by want2race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I think the P series guns are pretty darned shootable. And for that matter, so are the 320s. The two have pretty similar bore axis relationships. It's the Indian, not the arrow fellas. And I happen to quite like DA/SA pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterDrew Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) With the Sig SRT the sear reset point is very short, but if you release the trigger all the way it continues to travel and adds take-up. If you ride the trigger/reset it's got a very short reset and quick follow up, but that's probably not how most of us operate in USPSA. If there is trigger work available that can eliminate that take-up, and lighten the DA (significantly) I'd think the Sig could be very competitive. But I have not felt a Sig trigger that's been worked over to that degree Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited May 3, 2016 by shooterDrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I really dont understand why people think pre travel is a hindrance... So long as the trigger's mechanical reset is short, pre travel means absolutely nothing. Sig's have triggers that in my opinion rival CZ's. The problem is that a CZ is way easier to get down to the 2 lb area with minimal work and most USPSA shooters want 2 lb triggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASE772 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I just shot the 320 better than the P226 across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn0wflake Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I'm guessing its all about money. One is a lot cheaper. Thats why people use glocks and cz's too i guess. they are very cheap to buy. a glock around here cost about 50% of a sig alu frame, and 1/3 of a sig stainless. An sp01 shadow cost like half of a sig stainless. Its all about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn0wflake Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 CZ's have a very short reset with trigger work done to them. If anyone doesn't think so they haven't shot one with a CGW pro kit or a CZ Custom trigger job. If you want a DA/SA gun I believe CZ (or similar) are the only option. I didn't care for the 320 much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Around here you are not allowed to modify the trigger group parts, its not production then.. And to be honest I agree. production = shoot it the way it came out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn0wflake Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Nice thing about the sport, you pick what gives you an advantage...real or perceived. The reset distance is long with the Classic line, unless factory parts are replaced or worked over. Short stroking the trigger before reset happens often for me trying to shoot them fast. You can install a short trigger, but that just moves everything to the rear. The SRT is needed to reduce reset distance, however does the trigger stop or continue forward after the sear resets? That is my issue with CZ's. The sear reset is short, but the trigger continues forward another 1/4 inch or so. Maybe it's an 1/8th. Yes, CZ custom now has a fix for that too. Either way, I had a tuned SP01 and it never got passed the "testing" phase. Sold it before I shot it in a match. Hated it. Others love them. Some GM's win with them. Still doesn't suit me. Other than that, and these are clearly just my opinions, I have no idea why they are not as common as striker fired guns. Barrel length? Sight radius? I have only tried shooting a single mag out of a shadow and I let the trigger reset fully after each round and it felt like there was about a mile from that point to the sear break. Unlike anything I have ever shot before. I was like when, when will it break?? more? even more?? I actually prefer a revolver da pull to that one. the grip was great though, one of the best I have ever felt. super ergo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) I tried my P226 (E2 grip) 9mm in competition. It was an accurate gun, but the cheesy roll pin (sear spring retainer) is a weak point. I had to send it back to Sig to get a new one press fit after it came loose in a match. I'm not going to comment about the bore access, but the 226 felt "snappier" than my SP01 (and it did not return on target as quickly). I changed a couple of springs (to get better trigger pull . . .) and put in an SRT (but it really did not have as much practical match impact as people think it does). Getting a fiber optic sight to fit well was also a problem (the Dawson FO front was more than a tad too large for my 226, but was based on a 226 slide that Dawson had). I had to have it fit by them. It is an expensive gun comparative to the CZ (an SP01 with CGW springs and parts can be made to work better at lower cost than the cost of the base Sig--and the Sig needs parts above its base cost as well). I would much rather shoot my SP01, 1911, Wilson Beretta 92G Brigadier, or Glock 34 than the P226. The base P226 is not set up for competition and, as a poster above noted, Sig really has not addressed any changes to make it more USPSA friendly. I've seen two 226 Legions with issues (front sight and internal trigger-related) locally. I could not get the 226 DA anywhere as nice as the SP01, but really if you practice with it you can overcome the first shot DA pull. Edited May 4, 2016 by Steppenwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebeckjr Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I have both a P226 and a P320, and they are my two favorite guns. I'm shooting my 226 right now for Production, but will make the switch to the 320 soon. As to why the P320 is more popular, I think it's a couple things: - striker pistols are pretty popular in production, especially with other manufacturers - the P320 is significantly cheaper - the P320 has a great, consistent trigger right out of the box. It's not light, but is smooth and crisp, and keeps getting better - the availability and adjustability of the different grips make it attractive to some people I agree that if Sig was a few years earlier, they would have a nice chunk of the market. That said, the more people that shoot and try the P320, I suspect more people will jump on the bandwagon. I really do love mine! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 I started shooting USPSA Production with a Sig P226. It is the gun I learned to shoot with. I went to a Glock 34 and then ultimately to a CZ AccuShadow (which I absolutely LOVE). I remember a combination of things drove me away from the P226. 1) The DA shot was LONG and HEAVY. 2) There was little aftermarket support. Changing sights and recoil springs seemed hard at the time. Maybe that has changed? 3) The SA trigger had a very long reset (no short reset options back then). Pretty easy to short stroke when shooting at warp speed. 4) I could find few gunsmiths who worked on Sigs. Maybe this has changed too? 5) I also did some tests where I shot the same ammo through a Sig and then through a Glock. FOR ME, the Sig seemed to have more felt recoil and the sights rose higher in recoil. 6) After shooting other guns (1911s and CZs)......I started putting my thumbs in bad places on Sigs (i.e., the decocker and slide release). A Sig can be tough to shoot if you shoot other guns. My 2 cents..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Good point on the decocker. If your thumbs (thumbs fwd grip) push it down too much you can get light strikes. I've seen this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 And when I started shooting single stack I bumped my safety on coming back up from the mag release during a reload. All guns are shaped differently, you need to train with them a bit when switching platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalReload Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 True and unfortunate for people who like to switch up the rotation from time to time. I remember when I went through TASER certification. During the force on force portion of training, the guy in the redman suit was able to nearly tackle me because, despite hours of flipping the safety up (like with the Beretta), once I was under the pressure of the scenario, I went to flip it off in a downward way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTuna Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) With the Sig SRT the sear reset point is very short, but if you release the trigger all the way it continues to travel and adds take-up. If you ride the trigger/reset it's got a very short reset and quick follow up, but that's probably not how most of us operate in USPSA. If there is trigger work available that can eliminate that take-up, and lighten the DA (significantly) I'd think the Sig could be very competitive. But I have not felt a Sig trigger that's been worked over to that degree Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The Grayguns P Series trigger kit does all of that. I'm not sure if it's legal for USPSA. You don't get as light of a trigger in DA or SA like a CZ or Tanfoglio but it's still amazing.It's too bad the P226 Legion SAO is too fat for the IDPA box. Edited May 17, 2016 by MrTuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) The P226 and P229 Legion guns ship with a Grayguns P-SAIT trigger from the factory. Edited May 18, 2016 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTuna Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 The P226 and P229 Legion guns ship with a Grayguns P-SAIT trigger from the factory. I have the kit with the Grayguns trigger, hammer, sear, safety and springs. It's much better than the P-SAIT trigger with factory parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Any word as to when the Legion will hit the production list, making the Grayguns trigger production legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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