STI Edge feeding issues - at my wits' end

[Build4u]

I had to tune my aftec extractor as well. A lot of people treat them as a drop in part. At the time your round is hitting the top of the chamber the round starts to go up under the extractor. At this point it is riding on the point where the top of the ramp meets the chamber. A lot of the time that intersecting point is not rounded/eased over. This point is often left this way under the pretense of leaving a lot of the meat so the brass will not bulge because it is supported. That corner can be rounded over until you reach where the extractor groove ends on the brass or even a touch forward. When correctly done your brass will be fine and safe. When not done you will get exactly what it sounds like you are describing.The combination of polishing and putting the correct radius under the extractor, easing the ramp to chamber corner over and o.a.l. Is most critical to total reliability.

[2011BLDR]

I'm not prepared to accept ammo limitations - these 190's work like a dream and I don't want to change them just because my gun is finicky - I will get it to accept all ammo...or blow it to bits ;-)

Wow.... Good luck with that. :|I think you are failing to understand the 2011 platform - as designed - was intended for ammo longer than the SAMMI standard for .40 S&W. You can accept that, move forward, load according and be happy. :Dor continue to try an bend it to your will...and be frustrated. Your call.

This a 1911 was desined to handle 1.260 " OAL the 2011 follows that. The 2011 inside magazine deminsion tolerance for OAL can vary depending on the bullet profile a good rule is that anything over 1.240" OAL may start dragging inside the tube... Meaning we are already running short OAL from the desined OAL to work in the Magazines...i have used 1.225" as my OAL in a 2011 since 1995 (.40. & .38SC)

[Cliveb]

I'm not prepared to accept ammo limitations - these 190's work like a dream and I don't want to change them just because my gun is finicky - I will get it to accept all ammo...or blow it to bits ;-)

Wow.... Good luck with that. :|I think you are failing to understand the 2011 platform - as designed - was intended for ammo longer than the SAMMI standard for .40 S&W. You can accept that, move forward, load according and be happy. :Dor continue to try an bend it to your will...and be frustrated. Your call.

This a 1911 was desined to handle 1.260 " OAL the 2011 follows that. The 2011 inside magazine deminsion tolerance for OAL can vary depending on the bullet profile a good rule is that anything over 1.240" OAL may start dragging inside the tube... Meaning we are already running short OAL from the desined OAL to work in the Magazines...i have used 1.225" as my OAL in a 2011 since 1995 (.40. & .38SC)

I did not make myself clear - I'm not willing to change bullet weight/head...but I'm willing to load longer if that is what it takes. However, from the stoppages, I'm just not sure that this is in fact the problem - I really think it's an extractor issue.

[Cliveb]

I had to tune my aftec extractor as well. A lot of people treat them as a drop in part. At the time your round is hitting the top of the chamber the round starts to go up under the extractor. At this point it is riding on the point where the top of the ramp meets the chamber. A lot of the time that intersecting point is not rounded/eased over. This point is often left this way under the pretense of leaving a lot of the meat so the brass will not bulge because it is supported. That corner can be rounded over until you reach where the extractor groove ends on the brass or even a touch forward. When correctly done your brass will be fine and safe. When not done you will get exactly what it sounds like you are describing.The combination of polishing and putting the correct radius under the extractor, easing the ramp to chamber corner over and o.a.l. Is most critical to total reliability.

You raised an interesting issue re the rounding of the bottom edge of the chamber where it meets the ramp - I'll take a close look at mine and if necessary polish judiciously (and very, very slowly...)

[Cliveb]

Loaded a dozen dummy rounds to 1.195". The plunk test is no problem - they drop in and rotate in the chamber, so no worries there. They all chambered by racking the slide with a 12lb recoil spring - even slowly. Unfortunately, as a sample size it's irrelevant :-) I'll load up at least a first batch of 150 at this length, if they feed well, I'll do another 300 - if those all feed, it looks like I'll have a COL to live with and can load larger quantities. Luckily enough, I don't have any short ones left, so I might as well load at this new COL.

Wish me luck...this requires more patience than what I have available..lol.. Hopefully, the new COL, having polished the extractor and, if necessary rounding the lower corner of the chamber (I'll take that as a last resort) will finally lick my stoppage issues.

Thanks for all the interesting advice.

[Chutist]

I'm not prepared to accept ammo limitations - these 190's work like a dream and I don't want to change them just because my gun is finicky - I will get it to accept all ammo...or blow it to bits ;-)

Wow.... Good luck with that. :|I think you are failing to understand the 2011 platform - as designed - was intended for ammo longer than the SAMMI standard for .40 S&W. You can accept that, move forward, load according and be happy. :Dor continue to try an bend it to your will...and be frustrated. Your call.

This a 1911 was desined to handle 1.260 " OAL the 2011 follows that. The 2011 inside magazine deminsion tolerance for OAL can vary depending on the bullet profile a good rule is that anything over 1.240" OAL may start dragging inside the tube... Meaning we are already running short OAL from the desined OAL to work in the Magazines...i have used 1.225" as my OAL in a 2011 since 1995 (.40. & .38SC)

I did not make myself clear - I'm not willing to change bullet weight/head...but I'm willing to load longer if that is what it takes. However, from the stoppages, I'm just not sure that this is in fact the problem - I really think it's an extractor issue.

Ahh

I think you'll like the longer OAL. If you look at the gun as a system, you'll see OAL has a pretty significant effect on "how" (angle, Timing) the round comes up under the extractor.

Let us know how it goes!

[shootin-blanks]

I vote for ROUND bullets. 1.185 never an issue... 3 2011's in .40 and 3 1911's in .40.

[Cliveb]

I vote for ROUND bullets. 1.185 never an issue... 3 2011's in .40 and 3 1911's in .40.

These heads are pretty round actually - not the usual flat point, conical sides. The very tip is flat, but this is smaller than the usual flat point ones. They are similar to the round nose .45's...which is why I wouldn't expect problems. Ah well, tonight will load up a batch at 1.195" and will see how it goes over the weekend - I'll try to shoot them off between the bullseye session (Saturday) and the IPSC rifle match (Sunday)...so pretty busy weekend ahead (not complaining though...not for a second)

[Warkitz]

Sounds like unsupported barrel brass bulge.

[CHA-LEE]

I have had to "Tune" every single AFTEC extractor installed in my 2011's to produce optimal feeding and extraction. And I am not talking about screwing around with adding or removing springs either. From my experience they are not "Drop In" parts. But once they are fitted and tuned properly they work flawlessly for many thousands of rounds. I know my "Tuning" on them voids the warranty but I could care less if that is what it takes to make them 100% reliable.

If you need to remove a spring from the AFTEC to make it work then its not tuned correctly to start off with. You should always use both springs in the AFTEC for it to produce the proper amount of case rim tension.

[teros135]

Sounds like unsupported barrel brass bulge.

How would that be, if it is jamming before it even gets into the chamber? (or did I miss something?)

[Warkitz]

This was happening to me. There were bulges in the brass that wouldn't allow it to go into battery.

When I was inspecting the brass it was barely noticeable. Lee makes a die system to solve this.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Warkitz

[Cliveb]

This was happening to me. There were bulges in the brass that wouldn't allow it to go into battery.

When I was inspecting the brass it was barely noticeable. Lee makes a die system to solve this.

Absolutely not - they pass the plunk test and I run them through a Lee factory crimp die...mentioned it a few days ago

[Cliveb]

Sounds like unsupported barrel brass bulge.

How would that be, if it is jamming before it even gets into the chamber? (or did I miss something?)

Nope, you didn't miss a thing

[Cliveb]

I have had to "Tune" every single AFTEC extractor installed in my 2011's to produce optimal feeding and extraction. And I am not talking about screwing around with adding or removing springs either. From my experience they are not "Drop In" parts. But once they are fitted and tuned properly they work flawlessly for many thousands of rounds. I know my "Tuning" on them voids the warranty but I could care less if that is what it takes to make them 100% reliable.

If you need to remove a spring from the AFTEC to make it work then its not tuned correctly to start off with. You should always use both springs in the AFTEC for it to produce the proper amount of case rim tension.

Thanks Cha-Lee. I've done a fair bit of "tuning" on it now (and added the second spring). Let's be honest, the warranty isn't worth much from 10,000 miles away (give or take). Hopefully, the tuning of the extractor, coupled with 1.195" COL, will see me through..fingers crossed...

[Woodsk]

Try what is easy first...a different bullet. I'd bet money it is the bullet profile.

This was the fix for the feeding issues in my DVC, I had been using Xtreme 180 RNFP in my M&Ps forever but they would not feed in the DVC. Tried some bullet profiles that were less Flat more of a truncated cone and ended up using blue bullets 180s.

Now unrelated to feeding issues I am switching to Xtreme 180 HP because I bought a bullet feeder and the blue bullets don't work in it, the cost delta pays for itself in reduced time on the press.

[JMike]

Try what is easy first...a different bullet. I'd bet money it is the bullet profile.

This was the fix for the feeding issues in my DVC, I had been using Xtreme 180 RNFP in my M&Ps forever but they would not feed in the DVC. Tried some bullet profiles that were less Flat more of a truncated cone and ended up using blue bullets 180s.

Now unrelated to feeding issues I am switching to Xtreme 180 HP because I bought a bullet feeder and the blue bullets don't work in it, the cost delta pays for itself in reduced time on the press.

Ditto and that is why I suggested it to begin with.

A little back story:

I have a Tanfo Stock II and I was loading it with 147 gr RN Extremes at a suggested OAL of 1.125. The rounds would "plunk test" just fine but they wouldn't feed worth a damn, often failing to go into battery.

I talked with other Tanfo shooters that were loading a 147 gr HOLLOW POINTS to the same OAL and they were having no problems. The difference? They were loading 147 gr bullets but with a different bullet profile. My rounds were more rounded (or fat if you will) and required a shorter OAL. Once I sized my rounds down to 1.10, I had no more problems.

The problem with a 40 cal STI boils down to the gun, barrel chamber and the particular round. I have owned 40SW STI's that would feed anything and I currently own a couple that only feed rounds loaded to 1.17-1.20. And both of them will choke on a particular fat pill that I no longer use.

YMMV. But in any case, good luck to the OP.

EDITED: to reflect HOLLOW POINTS

Edited January 28, 2016 by JMike

[Bob DuBois]

Seen several S-I that didn't run start running by going to the Lee U die. 40 S@W is where the U die shines.

It will size closer to the extractor groove and tighter than other brands.

STI 40's like long loaded ammo. Load mine 1.220 using the Lee U die in station one, A Dillon powder through

die that's been turned down a little. Used a drill press and sandpaper. A sized piece of brass needs to slide over

the funnel with little effort. Stops chigger bites, found cup marks on the mouth of the case.

Lee seating die with a flat insert I had a local guy make for me. keeps OAL tight.

Dillon crimp die, don't care for the Lee FCD, if used it's backed off to only crimp. FCD can affect accuracy.

When setting the U die come back to reset using a small strip of paper as a go no go gauge, should pull

out but not push in. Lee's carbide ring is closer to the mouth of the die and if it hits the shell plate may

break the carbide ring. Lube cases when loading, makes the whole process easier on the brass, dies

press and the operator.

[Ray_Z]

My thoughts are pretty much the same as most of the others here. Your problem seems to be with the taper crimp. When I set my final die I don't measure the mouth of the case. I feel it. If I can feel any bell left in the case after going through the taper crimp die I take it down 1/8 turn. Continue this until you don't feel any bell left in the finishes cartridge. This is not to go too far. Or you'll distort the bullet. Then there goes the accuracy. Then take the barrel from your gun and chamber check each round.

[JMike]

Good luck to the OP!

[Cliveb]

Sorry guys, you are totally focusing on the wrong aspect by insisting on case bulges, too much bell etc

Th rounds fit perfectly in the chamber (rattle around a bit too). They also fit perfectly in a dillon case gauge, which is tighter than the barrel. If I have any which don't pass easily, I put these aside for plinking (and, for the record, they have never failed to chamber). The first thing I did when the problem arose was chamber check each and every round to eliminate that factor.

I think that Cha-Lee, Build4u and those who suggested tuning the extractor and lengthening the rounds are on the money - I've done both (as well as rounded the lower edge of the chamber ever so slightly). This weekend I'll try to test a first batch and report back.

[Build4u]

Cratex makes a tapered wheel that I use to blend the edges under the extractor, Midway has a fantastic clearance price on them right now. Most of the time the ramp to chamber transition point is not in need of a lot of material removal depending on barrel manufacturer and how much the barrel fitter massaged the point originally. When it does not need a lot I use a Cratex tapered point and work the transition point to put a little more radius at that point working from the top of the ramp easing the corner over. For a final finish I push a dowel rod in the barrel stopping it at the end of the chamber as a stop block, and then take a felt bob that is slightly snug in the chamber with jewelers rouge and polish the ramp, working over the radius and into the chamber putting a nice finish. Changing to a round nose bullet profile can possibly make the gun run, however it does not fix the real issue. Have you ever felt a gun that seems to feel super smooth when loading? Or that guns from certain smiths always seem to run? An advanced or sensitive to the feel shooter can sometimes feel the feeding while shooting and sometimes see it in the sights especially on a dot gun. When everything is correct you can let the slide forward slowly by hand and the round will smoothly feed in. If not handy with this kind of work talk to your friends at a match and find a good local smith. This kind of job is pretty quick and may get squeezed in right quick. Do not get frustrated, should be a simple fix.

[Cliveb]

Update - the gun is feeding everything from 1.135" to 1.200", very, very smoothly - working on the extractor hook seems to have done the trick.

However, and this is turning into a real shit storm, some of my rounds suddenly stopped chambering - and I noted that the bloody bullets are not seating straight, so the side of the bullet head rubs against the rim where the rounds headspace - of all the bloody luck. I guess I must have worn out my seating stem over about 50K rounds.... Naturally, they chamber fine in the Dillon case gauge and the Glock 35 - but in the STI, not a freakin' chance :-( Anyway, that's a thread for the reloading section.

Goes to show that a correctly tuned gun should be able to feed a variety of COL's....now to get my rounds straight again...

[RaylanGivens]

I have had to "Tune" every single AFTEC extractor installed in my 2011's to produce optimal feeding and extraction. And I am not talking about screwing around with adding or removing springs either. From my experience they are not "Drop In" parts. But once they are fitted and tuned properly they work flawlessly for many thousands of rounds. I know my "Tuning" on them voids the warranty but I could care less if that is what it takes to make them 100% reliable.

If you need to remove a spring from the AFTEC to make it work then its not tuned correctly to start off with. You should always use both springs in the AFTEC for it to produce the proper amount of case rim tension.

I have two STI Edge Limited guns in .40... Both still have the original STI extractor with many rounds through them... I've often thought of getting an Aftec extractor to keep in my range bag for spare parts.

After some reading, I see that the firing pin stop plate requires some fitting to get the Aftec extractor to rotate towards the case. Is this the fitting you are talking about? Not sure exactly what they mean by rotating.

I looked online but couldn't find an Aftec site, nor any online installation instructions.

Edited January 29, 2016 by RaylanGivens

[CHA-LEE]

Since the AFTEC extractor is ridged, unlike a stock extractor that bends, it needs to be able to move in/out and thus it need to be able to "hinge" at the connection point between the firing pin stop and the back of the AFTEC.

Yes the front & rear edges of the firing pin stop needs to be rounded so that the AFTEC can hinge on that connection point. This is what I would consider normal functional tuning that needs to be done regardless. Additional "Tuning" is usually needed on the bottom corner of the extractor hook and some times on the depth of the extractor hook to produce the proper extractor depth and pressure on the case.