NickBlasta Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 USPSA doesn't even restrict you to a division capacity. You can load your production mags to 17 or 19 or whatever and enjoy your trip to open if you really wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post So, the answer to "Can You Count?" is no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Stage was a 3GN Classifier. in the WSB it states: "Standing inside Box-A, Shotgun loaded to division capacity and held at port-arms, safety engaged. Pistol loaded and holstered, safety engaged." So from that statement if you are in practical or factory division shotgun should have 9 shells loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Stage was a 3GN Classifier. in the WSB it states: "Standing inside Box-A, Shotgun loaded to division capacity and held at port-arms, safety engaged. Pistol loaded and holstered, safety engaged." So from that statement if you are in practical or factory division shotgun should have 9 shells loaded. What if my shotgun does not hold "division capacity" I sometimes bring out the pump gun that holds 4+1. Do I get a procedural for not following the WSB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Stage was a 3GN Classifier. in the WSB it states: "Standing inside Box-A, Shotgun loaded to division capacity and held at port-arms, safety engaged. Pistol loaded and holstered, safety engaged." So from that statement if you are in practical or factory division shotgun should have 9 shells loaded. What rule says I have to load 9 shells? An M4 Benelli hold only 7 shells in the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 If you want to run a shotgun with less than division capacity I don't think anyone is going to give you a procedural. If you want to run a single stack in open I don't think anyone is going to care either Wsb says loaded to. Rules for the division define capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Don't forget that it doesn't even seem to be a USPSA/IPSC rules question (what this section of BE is about) but rather a 3GN rules question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Don't forget that it doesn't even seem to be a USPSA/IPSC rules question (what this section of BE is about) but rather a 3GN rules question. The match is usually USPSA, but they are adding 3 gun classifiers, so I have no idea what rules they go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 If you don't say it, you get someone who goes "so I can put 17 rounds into my Production mags? That's what loaded means" If you say it, you get other people telling you it's implied. The age old question of how specific to make the WSB. In the end it doesn't really matter a whole lot and probably just came from some guy copy/pasting 10 year old stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Stage was a 3GN Classifier... You would get better/quicker replies if you post in the correct forum. 3 gun nation is not USPSA shooting. This sub forum is for USPSA, though I guess USPSA multigun would technically apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Don't forget that it doesn't even seem to be a USPSA/IPSC rules question (what this section of BE is about) but rather a 3GN rules question. The match is usually USPSA, but they are adding 3 gun classifiers, so I have no idea what rules they go by. Asking the question here may not be particularly useful. It doesn't really matter what any of us (here on BE) say the rule is/means. What you need to do is ask the person who runs the match (and/or performs RM duties) what they require (and enforce) in the situation that you're concerned about. I hate matches that don't have clearly defined rules, or have rules that are inconsistently enforced. Good luck, ac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Stage was a 3GN Classifier...You would get better/quicker replies if you post in the correct forum. 3 gun nation is not USPSA shooting. This sub forum is for USPSA, though I guess USPSA multigun would technically apply. On the website they say they follow USPSA rules,practiscore is what we use to score it, the procedural are USPSA procedurals. Where is the right place for clarification? Load to division capacity is a maximum, no minimum IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Stage was a 3GN Classifier...You would get better/quicker replies if you post in the correct forum. 3 gun nation is not USPSA shooting. This sub forum is for USPSA, though I guess USPSA multigun would technically apply. On the website they say they follow USPSA rules,practiscore is what we use to score it, the procedural are USPSA procedurals. Where is the right place for clarification? Load to division capacity is a maximum, no minimum IMO. Not Load to. WSB is Loaded To https://s3.amazonaws.com/MS3GNUploads/Stages/WalkThrough/1g350nhy.hje.jpg?w=712&mode=crop and by 3GN rules its a procedural under 3.3 3.3 Additional +5 Seconds: Shall be assessed for failure to start in the position indicated in the Written Stage Briefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Would have been helpful to mention this question was about Multigun in the original post Stage was a 3GN Classifier...You would get better/quicker replies if you post in the correct forum. 3 gun nation is not USPSA shooting. This sub forum is for USPSA, though I guess USPSA multigun would technically apply.On the website they say they follow USPSA rules,practiscore is what we use to score it, the procedural are USPSA procedurals.Where is the right place for clarification? Load to division capacity is a maximum, no minimum IMO. Not Load to. WSB is Loaded Tohttps://s3.amazonaws.com/MS3GNUploads/Stages/WalkThrough/1g350nhy.hje.jpg?w=712&mode=crop and by 3GN rules its a procedural under 3.3 3.3 Additional +5 Seconds: Shall be assessed for failure to start in the position indicated in the Written Stage Briefing. Division capacity is a maximum number of rounds, no where does it say minimum number of rounds. If I am using a Benelli M4 and the division capacity is 9, but the tube is 7 and I put one in the chamber do I get a procedural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Bret. Wsb says LOADED to. Your m2 with 14 round tube was not in the proper start condition according to the wsb. Practical division capacity at start is 9 total. So loaded to division capacity is 9 Not less No one is going to give you a procedural if you gun holds less. But if you download then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Bret. Wsb says LOADED to. Your m2 with 14 round tube was not in the proper start condition according to the wsb. Practical division capacity at start is 9 total. So loaded to division capacity is 9 Not less No one is going to give you a procedural if you gun holds less. But if you download then yes. I looked up the rule, it says Maximum not minimum. What rule says I have to load my gun to hold 9 shells? Quote the number so I can look it up. If they want you to load 9 shells, it needs to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 What does "loaded to" mean to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 What does "loaded to" mean to you? It doesn't matter what my interpretation of it ia is, the rule book is what matters, from what I saw, it discusses maximum capacity not minimum. No rule says the minimum amount you have to load. What loaded to division capacity means,to me is, up to 9 shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I put the question over in the MG rules forum http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=227773 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 It is not and should not be called a USPSA match if they are doing 3 gun nation stages. It just became an outlaw match with whatever rules the MD makes up ( usually as he goes along) This whole thread borders on stupidly. Loaded to division capacity is the maximum allowed in the mag plus one in the chamber per the rules ( unless they specify a unloaded start ) If you are using your goose gun with a plug in it and it holds 3, that's what you get to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 It is not and should not be called a USPSA match if they are doing 3 gun nation stages. It just became an outlaw match with whatever rules the MD makes up ( usually as he goes along) This whole thread borders on stupidly. Loaded to division capacity is the maximum allowed in the mag plus one in the chamber per the rules ( unless they specify a unloaded start ) If you are using your goose gun with a plug in it and it holds 3, that's what you get to start with. The question is if a guy wants to load 7, is there a procedural for it? The reason for the 3 gun classifies it's to get guys ready for the 3 gun nation rules and the way they do things, the tsrgets are different and the way they assess procedurals is different. Is practiscore set up for the 3 gun nation rules, if not how do you score it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Bret, I stand corrected. If the competitor chooses to load less than the maximum, it is allowed. You are correct with may not start vs must start. All competitors can down load their magazines but never load more than the maximum start limit. Sincerely,Rob Romero 3 Gun Nation Director of Competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 What you need to do is ask the person who runs the match (and/or performs RM duties) what they require (and enforce) in the situation that you're concerned about. Where is the right place for clarification? Did you read the post right above yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Isn't this the USPSA/IPSC rule section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Isn't this the USPSA/IPSC rule section? Does USPSA have multigun rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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