Nik Habicht Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 One of our shooters had a minor accident on Sunday. Speculation was a double charge. Powder of choice was Tite-Group, Press was a Dillon 550...... Everybody pay attention when you're crankin' out the ammo. The shooter wasn't hurt --- didn't complain of more than an unusually heavy hit to the hit when he pulled the trigger. RO caught a bit of brass, but nothing too serious..... Serial # has been obliterated to protect the shooter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Yowza!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 nice to see glock now offers a hinged hood to make inspection & cleaning of the chamber easier. luckily nobody was seriously hurt. a couple years ago a local guy blew off part of his trigger finger when his glock did it's best imitation of a grenade, happened at a bullseye range not an ipsc match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Scary. That's one thing I really don't have to worry about loading for 9 major. Thanks for the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Every time I see this, a 650 looks cheaper and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 WOW,,,Waaaaaaaaaaaayyy scary!!! Please keep us informed if he tries to get compensation from Glock. Thanks for the exellent pics Nik!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Please keep us informed if he tries to get compensation from Glock. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure Glock will replace the parts for free or a nominal fee because they're such wonderful people. But why should they...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The damage is so significant that I agree completely - that looks like a double charge. I often see mere case head seperations balmed on double charges because shooters discount/do not understand the phenomenon of bullet set back. I am pleased that you posted photographs to illustrate the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Every time I see this, a 650 looks cheaper and cheaper. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eric, Get one! Case fed Progressives --- which have their own idiosyncracies to watch out for rock. One of the things that convinced me to start on a SDB was the auto indexing ---- because I'm the guy who will forget to advance the shellplate. Early on, I forgot to seat a number of bullets --- which fortunately only meant a mess in the finished cartridge bin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 The damage is so significant that I agree completely - that looks like a double charge. I often see mere case head seperations balmed on double charges because shooters discount/do not understand the phenomenon of bullet set back. I am pleased that you posted photographs to illustrate the difference. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BTW --- that's a KKM barrel --- so it's not like the case wasn't supported. We were quite impressed that the shooter didn't sustain damage. I was awed that the barrel split with enough force to peel back the top of the slide from the ejection port..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The real question is "what damage should a gun and a shooter sustain if a double charge goes off?" In general, steel framed 1911's tend to survive this sort of thing with minimal damage. The one exception I've seen was a former boss^3's Les Baer which had the frame crack in 6 places - the mainspring housing actually fell out with the retaining pin still in place. Les graciously offered a $50 discount offer full purchase price of a new gun, and told the owner that he was lucky it was such a high quality gun as this kind of frame crack is to be expected if you have a double charge in a steel framed 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Powdercheck system!!! It doesn't tell me if I have the exact amount of powder but it will beep at me if there's no powder or if there's a double charge. I sleep better at night knowing I have one. Now if I could only shoot better in the daytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I had a suspected "double" in my G20 using TiteGroup and my trusty 550b. Then again, looking at the brass, could it have been an out-of-battery? Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Tom, what did the gun look like? Unless it was damaged extensively --- I'd consider it a case rupture due to either non-support/slightly out of battery or bullet setback....... The double charge above --- split the barrel, peeled up the top of the slide, cracked the frame on the left around one of the pinholes and probably did in some of the internals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll state it here, too - I've loaded on both a 550 and a 650. There are ways to make a 650 throw a double charge, too, if you're not paying attention to what you're doing (usually while adjusting the press..., but I've almost managed others....). You should develop a routine with either press, and stick to it, and *PAY ATTENTION* - period. I'll grant that its a little harder to get into this particular trouble on a 650, though. This highlights the need to monitor your charges in a 550, though - there are apparently various ways. I like the "mirror mounted on the press" idea, though haven't tried it, as yet. Plenty of folks have loaded lots and lots of ammo on a 550 and have never had a problem. Neither piece of equipment can account for the nut driving it completely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 - I shoot lots and lots of TG in Glocks. - I don't load on a 550. fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds on a 550 and never had a squib or double-charge. If you follow BASIC reloading rules like making sure what's under the bullet your seating, you'll never have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I've done most of my reloading on two Square Deal presses [total cost for both = less than $300]. Something like 500k to 800k rounds, best guess. In addition to liking the short throw and the way I can squeeze the primers in with my fingertips around the primer column, I like that I can't double-charge, at least not with any mistake I've tried to make so far. In the early days I made QUITE A FEW dummy rounds that trickled powder under the shell plate, and quite a few times I showered the loaded ammo tray with powder from a case with no bullet. The Navy vocabulary came in handy for that. But I never had a bad round cost me much in a match. Maybe a couple with the OAL too long and a slap on the back of the slide. I made 10s of 1000s of rounds of 10mm with less than 5 grains of powder. Now I wonder what might have happened if I'd done all that loading on a 550. They might want to discount the cost of the powder-check for that press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 <possible thread drift> Powder check on a 550 is kind of tough. You have to take up a station with it. The 550 only has 4 stations - so you have to "settle" for a combo seat/crimp die, which is the "wrong" way to do it. I had it for my 650 - which is designed for using a powder check - but ended up not using it for .38 Super major stuff I was loading. A double charge with that compressed N350 load would be, well, pretty obvious I visually checked the case to insure I didn't have a squib before putting a bullet on top of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I have loaded LOTS of ammo on my 550's and haven't had a problem....but avoid distractions and do not "speed load" on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Its the reloader not the Reloader. Visually verify powder is the only way for me. 650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Powdercheck system!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Problem on a 550, if you put in a powder check, and move the seat/crimp die to station 4, everything is right handed and awkward. The 550 is a nice height to always look into the case, 650/1050 powdercheck all the way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Oh. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 It's not the re-loader it's the re-loader input module that is at fault. Nothing wrong with a 550, been loading on one since 1988. I have cranked out hundreds of thousands of rounds and not one single squib, or double charge in that entire time. I haven't even had an upside down primer yet either. There is nothing inherently unsafe about a 550. IMO, if the loadee chooses a powder and charge weight that allows more than one dose to fit in a case, she is setting herself up for this result no matter what press is used. No mechanical system is 100% and there is no reason to badmouth a specific piece of gear because of one persons carelessness. Put in good lighting over the press and always eyeball the charge before rotating the shellplate. Always choose a powder/charge volume combo that fills the case more than halfway and this will never happen to you. A 650 is not the answer, being smart and careful is. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 A 650 is not the answer, being smart and careful is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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