Rudukai13 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone here currently runs/has run a .357 SIG pistol in the Open Division? I've been doing some reading and have recently been considering abandoning my plans of making an M&P Open pistol and instead picking up a G31 to build up. My big requirement is that I want to be able to buy ammo off the shelf at my local stores (.357 SIG always seems to be on the shelves of the ones nearby). It seems factory .357 would make Major PF, create enough gas to work a comp, and at the very least not have any capacity less than the .40 Open shooters. Plus, going with .357 SIG helps to satisfy that little itch in the back of my mind that just keeps repeating "Do something a little different, a little unique..." Anyone have any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 One thing to consider. Most normal factory ammo cuts it pretty close to major pf in .357. Your Remington, Winchester, umc, etc 125 grain is rated at 168pf but may be less out of your gun. Most of the hotter stuff is defense oriented and a whole lot more. I'd make sure you can find a light inexpensive factory round with a bit more of a cushion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 If you go that route, make sure you use a comp that is designed for reduced loads. Factory target ammo will not be designed to work an Open gun comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Would the Carver three-port 9mm comp be appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I used to have a Glock 31 .357 sig open gun, it shot great. The only real issue is lack of capacity. .357 sig and .40 s&w use the same mags so the most you can get in a 170mm mag is 24 rounds. By contrast the 9/38 can get up to 30 so you would be at a disadvantage on some stages where you may need to reload and the 9/38 guys won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Vmax Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I like the idea for Limited, it really could be fine for open too, but it comes down to the whole brass thing, you are shooting a unique and somewhat expensive case, unless your club picks up brass for each other, you are in the same boat as the 38 Super guys, even more so since you will not find the occasional brass from someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You can use 40 brass for sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Vmax Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You can use 40 brass for sig. With some die work, yes, but again, that is more brass work. I have collected a 10 pound bucket of 40 brass, but I have am not sure how to convert it to .357 sig. I love the round, and it is one of my defense guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 To convert 40 to sig you just run it through the die to size the neck. You do end up with a slightly shorter neck than 'real' 357 sig but in practice it's a non issue. 357 sig is a popular calibre for limited (standard) in ipsc in Australia and most of the guys shooting it are running resized 40 cal. There are no extra steps. Chuck the 40 in the press and the sizer will de-prime and form the neck. Load as normal from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Actually southern belle brass sells .357 sig brass for $40 per thousand of once fired speer headstamp brass. They used to be $32.50 when I was buying them so that is not bad especially since they are same headstamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 interesting! would you use .355 or .356 bullets?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 interesting! would you use .355 or .356 bullets?? Use 9mm standard rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 interesting! would you use .355 or .356 bullets?? Use 9mm standard rules. ? I didnt understand that? do you mean .355 bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 BTW, what comp would work well in the 357 sig platform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) interesting! would you use .355 or .356 bullets?? I used to load them with .355 124 grain Xtreme FP plated bullets. They worked really well, you just need to make sure that you don't expand the case mouth too much when you load them. You just have a small band of brass holding the bullet in place so you need as much neck tension as possible to prevent setback. I used 7.4 grains of Longshot powder and OAL was 1.140. They will pass the 40lb scale test for setback when loaded properly. Edited October 15, 2015 by MrPostman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 BTW, what comp would work well in the 357 sig platform? If you have a Glock then the SJC 11 port 9 major comp is good, if you are going M&P then the new design Carver 9 major comp is the best offered right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) ...don't forget that you MUST have a fully supported chamber to shoot Major loads out of a Glock or you'll wind up with KABOOOM............a lot of guys shooting Open div with necked down 40 brass and a 9mm bullet call it 9x40.........super flat shooting out of STIs using H110 powder ( 15.6 grains).............word of caution: Speer 40 brass has been known to have case separations in the middle of the brass with this load, Winchester 40 brass and a few others have no problem, myself and others have experienced this with Speer 40 brass (someone told me Speer outsources some of its brass to a company in Brazil? and it does not hold up as well) Edited October 15, 2015 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I run a G22 in 357sig so pretty much what the OP is asking about. If I do my part and feed it half decent ammo it runs great. With the 22rd glock factory mags with the TF base pad I get 25rd I did have to touch the back of the feed lips with a file just a bit to get it to fit the gage. Reloading for it the only issue it to watch for setback. Lately I've been running 12.5g AA9 with a MG 125sig bullet, I will caution that my gun at least is VERY LOUD (louder than my AR with a muzzle brake) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefish Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I will caution that my gun at least is VERY LOUD (louder than my AR with a muzzle brake) Haven't noticed, but of course I am already half deaf from shooting at the same matches as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) ...don't forget that you MUST have a fully supported chamber to shoot Major loads out of a Glock or you'll wind up with KABOOOM............a lot of guys shooting Open div with necked down 40 brass and a 9mm bullet call it 9x40.........super flat shooting out of STIs using H110 powder ( 15.6 grains).............word of caution: Speer 40 brass has been known to have case separations in the middle of the brass with this load, Winchester 40 brass and a few others have no problem, myself and others have experienced this with Speer 40 brass (someone told me Speer outsources some of its brass to a company in Brazil? and it does not hold up as well) All of the threaded aftermarket barrels are supported and have tighter chambers than the factory, the difference is greater in the .40 vs the .357 sig as the factory Glock barrel in .357 sig is pretty tight vs the looser .40 factory barrel. They can do that due to the better feeding of the bottle necked .357. I never had any case failures of any kind in over 5k rounds. Most of the brass was on the 3rd or 4th loading when i sold the gun if that tells you anything. The brass they sell is once fired law enforcement range brass so I guess if these guys shoot this stuff in their duty weapons then it must be pretty good. Edited October 15, 2015 by MrPostman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone here currently runs/has run a .357 SIG pistol in the Open Division? I've been doing some reading and have recently been considering abandoning my plans of making an M&P Open pistol and instead picking up a G31 to build up. My big requirement is that I want to be able to buy ammo off the shelf at my local stores (.357 SIG always seems to be on the shelves of the ones nearby). It seems factory .357 would make Major PF, create enough gas to work a comp, and at the very least not have any capacity less than the .40 Open shooters. Plus, going with .357 SIG helps to satisfy that little itch in the back of my mind that just keeps repeating "Do something a little different, a little unique..." Anyone have any thoughts? I think your going to be disappointed if you think a factory 357 round is going to run a compensator efficiently. And the one ammo you find that does probably won't be the cheapest. And being unique and different isn't always a good thing. There is a reason you really don't see a lot of open shooters running Glock or M&P builds. Frankly, you just can get the same performance. The reason folks run 2011 platforms in 38 super, 38c, 9Major, 9x23, etc.. is because it is the best platform out there. Open division is not a save money and have fun shooting division, that one is called production. Open division is about doing anything that gives you an edge, to get that next shot on target faster than the other guy. Effective compensation with appropriate powders, short light trigger pulls with short resets, maximum capacity within allowed magazine length, perfect balance and weight placement for control. I started out open division with an STI Steelmaster. That gun would run anything off the shelf, even sub-minor ammo. But I learned that no matter what, you couldn't get the same effective use of the comp until you hand loaded with a powder that actually worked the comp. And then you have to work the load up and down till you find that sweet spot where is pushes the gun straight back, recovers right to the trigger break point, and allows you to track the dot during the recoil cycle. And the only way to achieve that optimality is hand loading... plus it saves a butt ton of money. And you know I loved that steelmaster when I was in C class. But then when I moved to B, I realized how much hit factor I was loosing by running minor. And I stepped up to a big boy gun in 9 major. Then I realized I had so many more powder choices, and so much more room to put that powder in a 38 super gun. My point in the whole thing was, I kinda was thinking the same thing when I started out. I didn't want what everyone else had, wanted to be unique. But I never asked why those folks have what they have. In fact having a super fancy open gun to begin with makes you "different" because those guns are very special. You don't see them every day. In fact I've been to many gun shows, and not once seen a solid race gun. Technically anything that doesn't fit into another division falls into Open, but I mean an honest built race gun formula 1 of shooters open gun. When I got my SVI, my shooting buddies who weren't USPSA shooters were in awe, but then like "Why did you spend so much money on that..." And then I let them shoot it, they got into USPSA, and now all want one. Then I got an Akai. And now I'm a junky who keeps spending money on open guns, and all of them are either broke or having something done to them because I broke them, wore something out, or wanted to change something to see if I could tweak another .01 second from my split time with that gun.... Edited October 15, 2015 by lee blackman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) You can't run .357 in limited major??? Only minor... Edited October 15, 2015 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone here currently runs/has run a .357 SIG pistol in the Open Division? I've been doing some reading and have recently been considering abandoning my plans of making an M&P Open pistol and instead picking up a G31 to build up. My big requirement is that I want to be able to buy ammo off the shelf at my local stores (.357 SIG always seems to be on the shelves of the ones nearby). It seems factory .357 would make Major PF, create enough gas to work a comp, and at the very least not have any capacity less than the .40 Open shooters. Plus, going with .357 SIG helps to satisfy that little itch in the back of my mind that just keeps repeating "Do something a little different, a little unique..." Anyone have any thoughts? I think your going to be disappointed if you think a factory 357 round is going to run a compensator efficiently. And the one ammo you find that does probably won't be the cheapest. And being unique and different isn't always a good thing. There is a reason you really don't see a lot of open shooters running Glock or M&P builds. Frankly, you just can get the same performance. The reason folks run 2011 platforms in 38 super, 38c, 9Major, 9x23, etc.. is because it is the best platform out there. Open division is not a save money and have fun shooting division, that one is called production. Open division is about doing anything that gives you an edge, to get that next shot on target faster than the other guy. Effective compensation with appropriate powders, short light trigger pulls with short resets, maximum capacity within allowed magazine length, perfect balance and weight placement for control. I started out open division with an STI Steelmaster. That gun would run anything off the shelf, even sub-minor ammo. But I learned that no matter what, you couldn't get the same effective use of the comp until you hand loaded with a powder that actually worked the comp. And then you have to work the load up and down till you find that sweet spot where is pushes the gun straight back, recovers right to the trigger break point, and allows you to track the dot during the recoil cycle. And the only way to achieve that optimality is hand loading... plus it saves a butt ton of money. And you know I loved that steelmaster when I was in C class. But then when I moved to B, I realized how much hit factor I was loosing by running minor. And I stepped up to a big boy gun in 9 major. Then I realized I had so many more powder choices, and so much more room to put that powder in a 38 super gun. My point in the whole thing was, I kinda was thinking the same thing when I started out. I didn't want what everyone else had, wanted to be unique. But I never asked why those folks have what they have. In fact having a super fancy open gun to begin with makes you "different" because those guns are very special. You don't see them every day. In fact I've been to many gun shows, and not once seen a solid race gun. Technically anything that doesn't fit into another division falls into Open, but I mean an honest built race gun formula 1 of shooters open gun. When I got my SVI, my shooting buddies who weren't USPSA shooters were in awe, but then like "Why did you spend so much money on that..." And then I let them shoot it, they got into USPSA, and now all want one. Then I got an Akai. And now I'm a junky who keeps spending money on open guns, and all of them are either broke or having something done to them because I broke them, wore something out, or wanted to change something to see if I could tweak another .01 second from my split time with that gun.... This is good advice and it is why I now shoot a STI Open gun in 38 super. The .357 sig was just a novelty when I was new to the sport. It was fun and it ran well but the fact is that it was not as competitive as my 38 super due to magazine capacity. 24+1 vs 29+1 or even 30+1 using an MBX mag is a big difference and can mean a 1-2 second reload on some stages, so you are just giving away time when that is what you are trying to save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) You can't run .357 in limited major??? Only minor... Yes you can. 357 sig is approved for limited major in USPSA and standard in ipsc. Basically because it uses the same case as a 40 they recognise there's no capacity advantage. So it's a level playing field. Edited October 16, 2015 by BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrmblr Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I wish I could run it as Major in SS. I have a Sig 1911 in 357-Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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