atomicferret Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Do you think there would be enough interest in promoting a major match where only "old" guns were used? A few years ago I shot the Texas Multigun Championship where they had a WWII division. It was a lot of fun to try to navigate this modern game with great historical weapons. My thought would be 2 divisions: WWII: Competitor can use any gun which was designed by 1945. Examples include Garands, Mausers, 1911's, revolvers, and allow any pump shotgun. (I know some semi-auto shotguns existed, but they won't be allowed). I'd even allow a 1919 if the guy wants to try and lug that thing around. Vietnam: Competitor can use any gun designed by 1975. Examples may include AR-15, Ak-47, FAL, etc. The intent of the match would be to stay somewhat true to the era of your division, ie iron sights, no compensators or extended magazines. The courses would be designed with any/ all of the limitations in mind. Does this sound like fun to anyone else? I may try to organize this one day and try get some major match sponsorship.... Or maybe I'll talk the guys at Hard as Hell into doing it next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I like the idea, but I am probably in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I dig it, but you'd likely have to codify a lot of the nitpicky aspects. Mag cap, dimensions, and forbidden modifications, for example. The brake restriction may not be tenable as even during the Vietnam era they had various comp-ish devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Just call it the Garand/1911/pump shotgun match and save yourself some time? Id shoot it. But In not heavily invested in cutting edge 3gun equipment, and pretty much suck anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I shot a rifle match with an m16a1 clone and 20round magazines last month. It was great fun. I like the idea, but whats stopping you from shooting those guns now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Our local 3-Gun match ran a Vintage Military Rifle division for years - participation was pretty much zero. If you want to try it, here is my advice: 1) Run it as a rifle/pistol match. Forget the shotgun as it likely would not be historically accurate anyway (folks would turn up with 870s and Novas). 2) Make the list of allowable guns very specific. For example WW2 = Garand + 1911, Vietnam = M16/XM177 clones + 1911, irons only, 20 round mags. 3) Simplify the stages in line with the lesser capabilities of the guns (fewer targets, closer range). The biggest challenge will be market demographics; the guys who shoot 3-Gun don't necessarily have a lot of interest in historical guns, and the guys who love historical guns don't necessarily have a lot of interest in running-and-gunning. Edited September 22, 2015 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfighteruk Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I have shot a WW2 stage in a normal multigun match were the guns & ammo were provided - made a nice change. Maybe the CMP could be asked to sponsor a stage & provide a couple of Garands with Armscor/RIA adding the 1911's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'd be all over it. But like Stealthy said, most of those guys that like old rifles don't run and gun. The idea of rifle/pistol only is a sound one. It will likely appeal more to that group of crusty guys that like old rifles too. (Of which I consider myself a member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'd be all over it. But like Stealthy said, most of those guys that like old rifles don't run and gun. The idea of rifle/pistol only is a sound one. It will likely appeal more to that group of crusty guys that like old rifles too. (Of which I consider myself a member.) I would be in my height of glory! Old guy, old gun, crustiness, real bullets, iron sights, actual aiming! Use Horner rules! Target with heads and maybe even helmets! Gonna go take something for my elevated heart rate now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfighteruk Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Bob I have 10 Brits that will be at TriCounty range from monday 26th October ( after Trijicon) bring your Garand were take you on a WW2 multigun, may even get them to bring beer for you ............................... Edited September 22, 2015 by gunfighteruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I have floated this idea just last week at our club, the idea sank! The idea was basically equated to shooting cowboy action. Many of the guys do not have a Garand, quite a number, believe it or not do not have a basic 1911. I thought it would be a hoot! But then again, I am old, crotchety, cantankerous and somewhat different in my thoughts as to what is good and bad in a match. If it were close by and if I was not already booked, I would give it a whirl. While you are at it, two division, US and THEM. US: M1 Garand, 1911, Springfield and Johnson, possibly a Revolver. THEM: Mauser, Luger or Walther, Ariska (Spelling is off I am sure, Japanese Rifle), Nambu or other Japanese pistol. Magazine capacity, what ever was the standard issue, ie 1911 7 rounds of .45 ball. No 'go fast gear' canvas or leather pouches. No optics, unless you have a 'sniper division' then you can use period scopes and mounts. Sounds like fun, but unless you have a group of re-enactors you are unlikely to get much participation and most re-enactors don't shoot, they act! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I have shot this gear at my local club, they allow me to shoot heads up in tac division with the consolation that I only have to put one on paper with the garand. I could also run a different (more standard type) pistol if wanted, but I like the other one and when running this gear I generally finish pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babob Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I've suggested this idea before at our local 3-Gun matches and it never went anywhere. I think just for fun, I might shoot the next Circleville, Oh match with my 1974 SP1 and Winchester 97 SG, (Need to find a 45 though). Yeah thats right I don't own any 1911's just all tupperware. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I'm in the minority I guess, I'm a younger fellow who got started in crusty old battle rifles and transitioned to all the new go fast goodies. I'd give a match like this a whirl, maybe once a year just for fun as long as the entry was reasonable and the round count relatively low, the old cannons are neither cheap to feed nor extremely pleasant to shoot all day. And as long as we're doing an Allies vs. Axis thing, we gotta have a Neutral division. My Husqvarna Mauser and K31 would like to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It doesn't even have to be historical for me. Just a match with a practical heavy option, wood and steel iron sighted rifle, pump 12ga, and a .45 1911. Preferably on a natural terrain venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Just an "Action" match for Garands would be a hoot. I've shot the WWII division at TX, and even shot the same gear in the Pro-Am one year. It's probably the most fun I've had at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomicferret Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 A two gun match would probably be a more viable option. Maybe have a shotgun as a stage gun or something... I am glad to see that I am not the only one who would shoot this. The stages would definitely be adjusted to reflect the lower capacity of these guns. I like the Axis v Allies divisions... I think the biggest problem would be getting people to travel for this. Actually, this would be about the only kind of competition you could run in California. Maybe I'll look around for a range to hold it out here. ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I would not adjust the stages, only the scoring, just go to one on paper for the rifles. Then you could still have the same difficulty, transitions, etc. without having too many reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It doesn't even have to be historical for me. Just a match with a practical heavy option, wood and steel iron sighted rifle, pump 12ga, and a .45 1911. Preferably on a natural terrain venue. I think He-Man Nats has what you are looking for. That said I remember reading about an annual AK v AR match in CO somewhere. AKs get 30 rounds/mag, and ARs 20/mag. Total/average the scores to see who does better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I even have a stage idea! Run 20 yards through a lane, butt stroking and bayoneting pumpkins, then another 15 yards to a prone position, load staged ammo, and engage flashers out to 300 yards...I guess I can dream.... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I even have a stage idea! Run 20 yards through a lane, butt stroking and bayoneting pumpkins, then another 15 yards to a prone position, load staged ammo, and engage flashers out to 300 yards...I guess I can dream.... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Getting a truck load of pumpkins could get pricey for the target budget. Mr Ziebart is correct. Jump on a plane to New Mexico and come shoot the He Man Nationals. Targets will be farther than 300 yards though. Your arm will be tired after the all birdshot stage (Sporting Clays From Hell). You will shoot with like minded people that like big bore rifles and pistols. We all shoot 12 gauge pump guns though. The stages are set up on one of the most beautiful places to shoot in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The problem with comparing this idea with heman nationals is rifle capacity, 8 round top loaders cannot start to compete on equal footing with m1a's and ar10's. Although heman nats, might be a good place to try this division. Once again though maybe let the garands/boltguns put 1 on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 M1A is perfectly acceptable for me. Just no bayonet lug to slash pumpkins. :-) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunfighteruk Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Bob we have Huns head targets over here , will bring a few over next month. We also have full body version that you could mount on hay bales for your bayonet charge ! Edited September 24, 2015 by gunfighteruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Bob we have Huns head targets over here , will bring a few over next month. We also have full body version that you could mount on hay bales for your bayonet charge ! That solves the pumpkin fees, but you don't get to shoot with pumpkin guts all over your stock after the butt stroke to the pumpkin! LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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