Jimk60 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Wanted to know if anyone else is having, or had this problem, and what they did to correct it. When I load X-treme 9mm 124 gr round nose on my XL650 with a Dillon seating die, about 80% of the rounds end up with a ring impression on the top of the bullet. The round nose seating insert has a hole in it that is apparently causing this issue. I know it affects accuracy to some degree. I use these to shoot steel, and although I'm not a great shot, I was miserably bad with the round nose bullets with the circle impression on the tip. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnm45 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Might try switching out the round nose seating insert with a different insert, even a flat nose insert. Or, try filling in the hollow nose of the insert with some hot glue and before the hot glue sets up put a X-treme round nose into the insert to form a new profile. Let the glue set up and you now have a custom seater insert. The glue can always be removed with heat and reformed to your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Might try switching out the round nose seating insert with a different insert, even a flat nose insert. Or, try filling in the hollow nose of the insert with some hot glue and before the hot glue sets up put a X-treme round nose into the insert to form a new profile. Let the glue set up and you now have a custom seater insert. The glue can always be removed with heat and reformed to your needs. Heck of an idea. Will give it some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 If the ring is centered on the bullet I'm not sure it would really affect your group size. Do ones without the ring group any differently than the ones with a ring ??? Same bullet, load and OAL of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Try flaring the brass a bit more to reduce resistance during seating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 The ring impression around the center, meaning on the ogive? If that is the case just knocked the edge of the stem cup with a couple swipes using 600-800 grit sandpaper to smooth the sharpness off, then polish with a dremel. If the ring is at the center (point) suggestions above are in order for a custom stem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truborshooter Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Compression load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have shot a few plated and coated bullets with various rings and dimples from reloading with no effects on accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickshackelford Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The ring you are talking about is called "swaging" and I have found it can be corrected by really working on the correct adjustment to the Bullet seater/taper crimp settings; that preceded as mentioned by a slightly deeper flare from either your powder through die or seperate die to allow the bullet to actually have a good "pre-seat" as it were. Too much taper crimp presents a strong resistance to the bullet seating so you'll get a "swage" in the bullet head. (Different brass can also present as well.) Hope that helps... By the way: my 9mm does not have accuracy issues when the swage does happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I thought swaging was forming the whole bullet. These little rings and dimples are just near the tip and are caused by sharp edges seating soft plated or coated bullets. I noticed the heavier the bullet the more pronounced the markings are since they are seated deeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have shot a few plated and coated bullets with various rings and dimples from reloading with no effects on accuracy. Correct, and it is not swaging. If it bugs you, take a carbide cutter to the seater plug and flare it a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. It is on the tip of the bullit. I crimp with a Lee FCD, not the seating die, which is Dillon. I'm sure brass thickness plays a roll because it doesn't happen on all rounds. The other thing is that sometimes the ring is off center and/or causes the tip to slightly extend, making the OAL a couple thousands longer. This has not been an issue in and of itself. I believe that some of the bullets actually seated slightly crooked, but the FCD corrected the problem. Before the FCD, and before I noticed the ring at the tip, I was having quite a few jams, hence the FCD which solved that problem. The next time I load these bullets, I will try to open up the belling a little more. But I have to be careful, because if the belling gets too large, I'll start getting brass shavings around the FCD. I agree that the concentric ring should not effect accuracy at pistol distances, but the off center ring, I believe would cause flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 That is possible, if the "ring" deformed the bullet nose or caused it to be off center when seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Flipping over the seating insert will fix it. The supplied rn insert is bad at marking up certain types of bullets. A lee seat die would also solve it. Easier to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have been considering using a different seating die. I will check them out. Thanks everyone for all the advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I had this. The Dillon cust support said its because the force required to seat the bullet is excessive. Solutions are one-shot, or use dry media with polish rather than wet tumbling. The lubrication provided by the dust/polish will mitigate the force required. I use pre-treated dry media now, and the problem totally disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) All of the 9 mm cases used where wet cleaned with dish washing detergent. Leaves them excruciating clean. I had to use one-shot when sizing. I have switched to AA Wash and Wax, I have only loaded .45 ACP and 9mm HP with these cases and one-shot was not needed. As of yet, I have not loaded the round nose 9 in the wash and wax cleaned cases. I will see if that alleviates the problem before adding the dry tumbling to the process. Edited August 3, 2015 by Jimk60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneSurfer Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Are you sure the ring wasn't on the bullet to begin with? I've just received 5000 extreme 9mm 124 plated bullets. They ALL have a perfect circle impression right around the very tip of the bullet. I like you thought it was the press. But, examining the bullets fresh out of the box, they all have it. In my case, it is so slight, and very perfect, that I can't imagine it to cause a problem. I have to use a maginfying glass to get a good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Wanted to know if anyone else is having, or had this problem, and what they did to correct it. When I load X-treme 9mm 124 gr round nose on my XL650 with a Dillon seating die, about 80% of the rounds end up with a ring impression on the top of the bullet. The round nose seating insert has a hole in it that is apparently causing this issue. I know it affects accuracy to some degree. I use these to shoot steel, and although I'm not a great shot, I was miserably bad with the round nose bullets with the circle impression on the tip. Any ideas? I had the exact same thing happen with X-treme 147gr RN bullets on my 650. The Dillon seating stem isn't a good match for that bullet profile, I guess. I switched over to a Lee sizing die and the rings went away. And as others have said, the Lee die is a hell of a lot easier to adjust. Edited August 4, 2015 by FTDMFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Are you sure the ring wasn't on the bullet to begin with? I've just received 5000 extreme 9mm 124 plated bullets. They ALL have a perfect circle impression right around the very tip of the bullet. I like you thought it was the press. But, examining the bullets fresh out of the box, they all have it. In my case, it is so slight, and very perfect, that I can't imagine it to cause a problem. I have to use a maginfying glass to get a good look. That is what I first thought, that they came with the that way. Once I noticed the ring, which is very difficult to see because of light reflections off of the bullet, I started looking at every bullet as I got ready to seat it. I loaded 10 or so and when I checked the completed rounds, over half had the dimple. So I am pretty sure they were not there prior to loading into the case. As FTDMFR stated, I don't believe the Dillon seater insert is a good match for the Xtreme round nose. I think that it actually seats with direct contact on the tip rather than the sides. I have loaded a couple of thousand of the Xtreme hollow points without any problems. Edited August 5, 2015 by Jimk60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) One other nice thing about Lee seating dies that I learned recently - you can send them a bullet, and they'll make a custom seating stem for you for $8. I'm not sure if any other die manufacturers offer this service. Edited August 5, 2015 by FTDMFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlightMurse Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Could you post a picture of the bullet tip? How much pressure do you have on the down stroke when loading these rounds? I would think you would have to press pretty hard to deform the bullet enough to make a change in accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdinga Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 IF you go to to Redding competition seating die the ring will be eliminated and you have repeatable settings as you change bullets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimk60 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Flightmurse - Seating pressure varied by headstamp. I use mixed for 9mm that will be used in steel matches. I believe the reason it was some but not all that had the ring, was due to the thickness pf the brass. Thisk brass, more pressure etc. Rdinga, certainly an option, the price is a sticking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Wanted to know if anyone else is having, or had this problem, and what they did to correct it. When I load X-treme 9mm 124 gr round nose on my XL650 with a Dillon seating die, about 80% of the rounds end up with a ring impression on the top of the bullet. The round nose seating insert has a hole in it that is apparently causing this issue. I know it affects accuracy to some degree. I use these to shoot steel, and although I'm not a great shot, I was miserably bad with the round nose bullets with the circle impression on the tip. Any ideas? Any mark on the tip of a bullet will not effect the performance of that bullet enough to bother with. It is the BACK of the bullet that will effect accuracy enough to care about. The back is the last thing that touches the crown of the barrel. Deformed back of a bullet and or a bad crown WILL effect accuracy for sure. Hollow point bullets are day in day out more accurate because the back end does not come out of the mold last. The tip does so the back is just about perfect. Look at any Hollow point. It is not any where near as perfect looking as any Round nose. Really! You have other things going on that are effecting your accuracy problems. Too many to list but I will try. Gun, barrel, crown, bullet, load, shooter, grip, flinch, eyesight, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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