DougCarden Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Pat, I have loaded 1000s upon 1000s of those loads with 147 and 150s with 320 and have NEVER seen that with 38 short colt, which is basically a rimmed 9mm case with many characteristics. I am leaning towards a brass problem as the primers are not sealing to the case, or if the chambers are tight and the cases don't go back against the back and seal properly. It will be interesting to see what the culprit is.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm running e3 with 147s which is up there on the burn chart with N310 and Red Dot. I have ran it with 160s and when my 147s are gone I'm going back to them. No issues in Starline brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Doug, it seems that the folks having problems with the 929s are typically using a fast powder-heavy bullet combination. These loads do shoot soft, but we're shooting minor caliber loads out of big N frame revolvers. Slower powders reduce chamber pressures, this should give easier extraction. I can't imagine anyone here would notice the extra recoil of a slightly higher volume powder charge in a 44 oz revolver given the same power factor. Leaking primers are a sign of excessive pressure or old brass at rifle pressures. At the pressures we play at, they should be a large red flag. Many of us play at the edge of typical handloading practices looking for an advantage. Every gun is an individual, and sometimes we need to step away from that edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&WIowegan Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 What an interesting thread! I haven't seen any problems on my 929 because I haven't shot it enough. However, I bought a Les Baer Premier II 45 ACP a few years ago which has a carbon steel frame and slide that have been hard chromed. It came from an auction site so I don't know the gun history. I noticed the primers in fired brass had a donut ring pressed into the primer when it came out of this Baer gun. The breech face is completely etched with a ring around the FP hole. I never realized the ring is probably from gas leak around the primer until this thread. Baer drilled the FP hole out to 45 ACP firing pin for me but the ring is still there. Baer did a little rant about Winchester white box ammo probably causing the erosion but never mentioned gas coming out around the primer. Now I have a good idea how the damage occurred. Gun runs fine but the resale price will suck. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Pat, Thanks for your input but there are lots of guys using a similar load (Heavy bullet/fast powder) - MWP for one. The other difference is that I'm using a .357 diameter bullet but I'm not sure that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 UPDATE: Received 929 back from S&W with firing pin bushing replaced. I reinstalled all the APEX parts and shot a sectional match - maybe 250 rounds. No signs of primer issues (no black around edge of primer). HOWEVER, the erosion has already started to show. FRUSTRATING! Going back to my 627 for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Doug, You have convinced me to flex hone my cylinders AND to move away from Federal Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I know some guys that have had that done and have no issues. I wonder if the FP bushing is a flashchromed part or is actual stainless. If it is a cheaper made part that is cheaply chromed then it would not hold up as well as a pure stainless part. I wonder if you can find a stainless FP Bushing and try that. I just have a hard time believing that those loads are flamecutting like that. A lot of us used to load heavy Pin loads with federal primers/brass and never had that kind of damage. If you had to beat that brass out of the cylinder and had marks around the primer it would make sense. Try some different brass and see if you see a difference. The Federal rifle brass can be iffy. They had a lot of .223 brass with bad annealing on the primer pockets and after the first load you may experience primers falling out. They could have a bad lot of brass in 9mm as well....... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I've been using federal range pickup brass exclusively for my 929. Titegroup with a 160 bayou. This brass has been loaded more than 10 now times by me and the fp bushing on my gun is fine and the primers on all my brass after firing in this gun are smashed(as previously noted, if you didn't know better you would assume you were way over pressure...) with no signs of leakage. Edited August 11, 2015 by seanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 When you say "Fed primer", which are you using and getting leakage? 100 or 200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 100's - "Small Pistol Primer" - not the magnums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolver45 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I had Power Custom in MO. convert a NIB 929 over to a 9 MM/38 Super dual cylinder conversion. He cut the front compensator mount off and re-contoured the barrel and lug, and performed a complete double action only job, Every part in the gun was replaced with a tool steel replacement item and the cylinder stop and hand were refit using over sized parts. After about 200 rounds of 38 Super, same problem developed as it did with my other 929 9 MM. Firing pin bushing erosion or as I am being told, flame cutting due to the Federal primers. It happened with 124gr. Berry HBFP, 147gr. Montana Gold FP and 135gr. Bayou using Titegroup, Power Pistol and 231. The common items in each load were the following: Starline Brass and Federal Primers (of which I have been told by Ron Power) that he believes is the culprit. He believes that they are too soft for my application and suggested that I switch to CCI or Winchester. I am making the switch and will be feeding him the results soon. I will post it here also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 No way. Starline brass and Federal primers are great in revolvers. From what I have seen, ultra-light loads are the most likely culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolver45 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 No way. Starline brass and Federal primers are great in revolvers. From what I have seen, ultra-light loads are the most likely culprit. That is what Powers was referring to, however, I believe that increasing the charge defeats the purpose of being able to shoot a 130 to 135 PF round in competition. Any thoughts on alternatives with the rounds I mentioned? The 147 gr. bullets are real accurate out of both guns with the .355 barrel. Please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 No way. Starline brass and Federal primers are great in revolvers. From what I have seen, ultra-light loads are the most likely culprit. Same here, light loads or too hard a primer in combination with the light load. Are you using #200 Federals or #100? You need enough pressure to slam the cartridge back against the recoil shield and cause the primer to expand and seal off the back of the cartridge. A soft primer in a rifle is a little different where they can cut through if too soft. If Starline brass and Federal primers were the problem I would have killed a mountain of revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 How many grains of Power Pistol were you using in the 9mm with the 135 Bayou and 147 Montana Gold bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolver45 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 How many grains of Power Pistol were you using in the 9mm with the 135 Bayou and 147 Montana Gold bullets? I used 4.6gr of Titegroup with the 135's and 5.6gr of Power Pistol with the 147's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 No way. Starline brass and Federal primers are great in revolvers. From what I have seen, ultra-light loads are the most likely culprit. Yeah, I mean, I don't get it. I am running 2.7 of titegroup under a 160, totally anemic charge and I have zero signs of primer sealing problems. Something else is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Local guys at my steel club are shooting power pistol in short colts and specials with federal primers, all have eroded bushings. Light loads, maybe 115 pf. I am using tg, with heavy bullets, and have no issues. 1 top shooter is using tg with 135s, and he shoots a lot, no erosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I guess I have been lucky because I have shot buckets of light loads in different guns with a wide range of powders and bullet weights and have never had a problem. I wonder if it may have something to do with primer seating. I load on a RL1050 and just dial in a good crush on the primers so that they are a good .008 below flush, I wonder if that helps to seal them off until the real pressure comes along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I was just thinking about that specific thing Gregg. I've only ever hand seated, or seated in a 1050. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mover480 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I've had bushing erosion too. It looked to me that the rounded front of the firing pin bushing was dishing the primer and affecting the seal of the primer in the cup, thus allowing the gas to blow by. Not sure when, but Smith changed the bushing design to this rounded front a few years ago. Anyway, I removed the bushing, ground the face flat, and reinstalled. The bushing is now flat and flush with the blast shield. Gas cutting stopped. The gun has since had around 50,000 rounds through it with no more bushing erosion. This is with 38 short colt, Fed 100, Zero 125 gr JHP, 5.4 gr 3N37 and primers seated .008" to .010" on a 650. Actually, I've done this to three 627's when each showed signs of bushing erosion and, in each case, the problem stopped. Your problem may be different, but this worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Thunder Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 This seems to be yet another mystery to the 929, rather like the sticking brass issue. Some people have problems, some don't. While I'm leaning toward the primer seating depth as the culprit in this case, I'm wondering if inconsistent chamber size in the cylinder of some guns may be allowing the brass (and primer pocket) to spread. Also, have any of these affected guns had their cylinders modified and/or chambers polished? Just throwing out some Hail Mary ideas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now