MissionaryMike Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ladies and Gents... I picked up quite a bit on a recommendation only to read, on these forums and a few others, that powder weight has to far exceed Ramshot's own load data in order to 1) cycle properly and consistently, and 2) to achieve a safe power factor for 9mm minor. I'm relatively new to reloading my own ammo, so I have a few questions. Is Ramshot's load data just way off? I've read people loading up to 4.0gn for plated 147g bullets, while 3.0gn is supposed to be the max. Is overloading powder by that much, or at all, just an accident waiting to happen for a newbie (or anyone)? I'm not stuck on using 147g bullets. Would using lighter, 124/5 or 135, bullets allow me to achieve power factor better with lesser amounts of powder, making it safer? Should I just ditch this powder and move on? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I use Competition for x-treme 135 HP. Yes, the load is above the book. The Ramshot load data for a 147 is 3.4 at 1.165 for right at 125PF. I would be loading to a 131 to 135 PF--(because not all chronos read the same). I don't have my loading book with me, but I can tell you the 135 loads primers look better than some store bought 9 ammo I have seen. Primers and a Chrono are your friend. My overall length is 1.140 to fit the mag. The lighter the bullet the more powder required Published load data is "safe" for companies to put in print. You did not mention what gun you are using--Some barrels don't like 147s. I've found 135s are a nice balance between 124s and 147. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks for the info. I'm using an Accu Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks for the info. I'm using an Accu Shadow. Same here. I just started 147s with N310 for a 137 PF and they are quite accurate. I have data for the 135s with RC if you want it. Just PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-mishka Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Any data on 124gn Ramshot Comp load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j28s Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Blue Bullet 124r. Comp 3.8gr is about 136 PF, WSP, 1.1400" OAL (out of 5" STI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregshin Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 147gr plated with 3.6gr at 1.130 gets me 136pf. Primers look great with 2011 5inch barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinne Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 So who has loads for 135gr? I went up to 3.1g and it still under minor PF by a lot. I won't be able to chrono for a few weeks, so I want a good starting point so I can just focus on reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregshin Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) So who has loads for 135gr? I went up to 3.1g and it still under minor PF by a lot. I won't be able to chrono for a few weeks, so I want a good starting point so I can just focus on reloading. I don't load 135gr...but the ramshot data said 3.0 grains is max for my 147 load. I had to go 3.6 grains for it to cycle and the primers still look great. i can probably go down to 3.4 or 3.5 and do 1.125 to make around 135PF. what is your COAL? and what is your barrel length? Edited July 6, 2015 by gregshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Missionary Mike, you're original statement of 3.0 being the max for Ramshot Comp should be considered correct. The first response to your post stating the max is 3.4 grains refers to Accurate Arms updated or "expanded" load data. Everyone looks at that expanded data like Accurate/Ramshot/Western Powders retested, and the old data is unnecessarily conservative. But if you compare to the two sets of load data and look at the pressures, you can see what's going on (for 9mm, anyway) is that the "old" data is for SAAMI max standard pressure, which tops out at 35,000, and the "new" expanded data runs the pressures up through +P, which tops out at 38,500. There's no reason to be running competition or target loads at +P pressures, and it will wear out your gun all the faster. And people can go above +P max, if they like, without blowing up the pistol, or at least not blowing up the pistol right away, but if you pound your pistol like that with overpressure loads, you may over time fatigue the metal and one day you pull the trigger and the metal gives up, kaboom. And then you tell yourself it was a double charge or whatever, not really wanting to consider that it was your irresponsible loading practices at fault. "I've fired 10,000 of this load, so I know it's not the load." When in fact it could easily be that you fired 10,000 of that overpressure load and on 10,001 the gun finally gave up. So to answer your earlier question -- No, it's not just that Ramshot's data is way off. It's that people are able to go above the data with blowing up the gun, and if the gun doesn't blow up right away, they think it's fine, so they continue to do it.To respond to one of the responses -- a chrono is your friend. You can get one in the neighborhood of $100, and at that price point, there's no reason not to. How to employ one in load development to increase safety is a different topic, but they're worth having for that purpose. And if you're trying to achieve a minimum power factor, you have the option of checking your loads with a chrono OR targeting a power factor much higher than what you need to cover your bases OR guessing and hoping for the best but with a good chance of not making power factor and shooting for no score. A chrono is the best option there. As far as reading primers, I don't recommend you try with pistols. With rifles, with a base line from a lot of experience with the particular rifle, brass, and primer, you can read pressure signs on the primer. With pistols, it's unreliable, and if you start seeing pressure signs, you're probably way overpressure already. And to the last question you asked as to whether lighter bullets would allow you to achieve power factor with less powder, the answer is no. This a common misconception with new reloaders. When you're talking about lighter vs heavier bullets, you can reach the same velocity with lighter bullets and less powder, but power factor isn't velocity; it's actually a measure of momentum. And for the same momentum, the lighter bullet requires more powder than the heavier bullet.And finally, with your CZ, depending on the bullet profile, there is a good chance that you will have to load the cartridge shorter than the OAL used to generate the load data, and if that's the case, it's not a bad idea to reduce the starting load when you start working up your own loads. Edited July 6, 2015 by IDescribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinne Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 So who has loads for 135gr? I went up to 3.1g and it still under minor PF by a lot. I won't be able to chrono for a few weeks, so I want a good starting point so I can just focus on reloading. I don't load 135gr...but the ramshot data said 3.0 grains is max for my 147 load. I had to go 3.6 grains for it to cycle and the primers still look great. i can probably go down to 3.4 or 3.5 and do 1.125 to make around 135PF. what is your COAL? and what is your barrel length? COAL is 1.10 i'm thinking of increasing it to 1.12. I've loaded some more test loads from 3.3 to 3.5. I make minimum PF at 3.3 but my numbers seem to be off since I chrono late in the day. So i'm going have to test again. This is shooting out an CZ SP01 Shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinceislander Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I was hoping to get 130PF using 147gr FP SNS Lead. This is the best I could do at my comfort zone limit. RS Competition 3.2gr 147gr FP NLG SNS 1.137" 850fps - Out of a CZ P-07 3.8" barrel I still have one more option. That is to try using Bayou's 147 FP because this bullet goes a touch faster compared to SNS of equal weight while I was chrono'in at lower powder charges ( i.e. 2.7gr through 2.9gr). Edited July 7, 2015 by vinceislander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinceislander Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Went out to the desert this morning to chrono my latest loads. This is relevant to the OP. RS Competition 3.2gr 147gr FP Bayou Bullet 1.147in 883fps - Out of a CZ P-09 4.5" barrel Accuracy was "acceptable". I had a few fliers. This is my first rodeo with 147gr, coated bullets and P-09. So lots of variables. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) If you are finding that you are getting acceptable but not great accuracy with 147 grain bullets, try getting the average velocity over 930 feet/sec. That will preclude some of the fastest powders, but you will likely see groups tighten up (especially out at 25 yards) somewhere between 915 and 925, and 930 gives a nice cushion to account for extreme spreads. Edited July 7, 2015 by IDescribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rback Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Any data on 124gn Ramshot Comp load? 3.0gr @1.135 with a BBI 125 gets me 920fps with a SD OF 5 out of a G17 with stock barrel. Super soft load and cycles great with a 13 lb spring. 2.8gr with a 147 extreme is equally soft. Great for 3gun, takes down steel easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwhpfan Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Here's some pretty good information. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=218895 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywatcher Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 that and silo in stock at grafs and sons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accu9 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) 147gr Xtreme .356's 3.5gr Ramshot Competiton Fed SPP 1.145 OAL 130PF out of my CZC Accushadow and 2014 Custom Edited October 22, 2015 by accu9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 147gr Xtreme .356's 3.5gr Ramshot Competiton Fed SPP 1.45 OAL 130PF out of my CZC Accushadow and 2014 Custom That's a long OAL for 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 147gr Xtreme .356's 3.5gr Ramshot Competiton Fed SPP 1.45 OAL 130PF out of my CZC Accushadow and 2014 Custom That's a long OAL for 9mm. For a CZ, maybe. For a 1911/2011 that's probably close to the average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) 147gr Xtreme .356's 3.5gr Ramshot Competiton Fed SPP 1.45 OAL 130PF out of my CZC Accushadow and 2014 Custom That's a long OAL for 9mm.For a CZ, maybe. For a 1911/2011 that's probably close to the average. Probably not. SAAMI Max OAL for a .45 is 1.275. 1.45 is a bit long. I'm assuming that's summoned to be 1.145 which squares with my load data. Edited October 22, 2015 by peterthefish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Doh! I saw 1.45 and automatically read 1.145... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accu9 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Sorry guys that was a typo, 1.145 OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-mishka Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I loaded some Ramshot Comp 3.65 gn at 1.130 oal under 125gn loaded bullet. Came out to 127.5 pf in my Tanfo stock 2 . It felt nice and soft, clean too. However i noticed that primers were somewhat flattened out. What are the consequences might be of using this load? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverDave Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 e-mishka, not sure what to tell you with the 125gr projectile.I can tell you that the following shoot VERY flat and soft and I tested it with a Chrono, it makes minor PF plus 10% Ramshot Competition147 gr Rainer TRN3.1 gr 1.135-1.140 OAL Feeds and cycles great with factory springs in Glocks, XDM's, M&P Pro and Tanfoglio's This is my favorite 9mm load. Only problem with RS Competition is you have to hunt for it here in Colorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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