Ramshot Competition for 9mm

[IDescribe]

I loaded some Ramshot Comp 3.65 gn at 1.130 oal under 125gn loaded bullet. Came out to 127.5 pf in my Tanfo stock 2 . It felt nice and soft, clean too. However i noticed that primers were somewhat flattened out. What are the consequences might be of using this load?

Wow. Okay, e-mishka, here you go:

I am going to assume that because you are loading a 125gr bullet that this bullet is either lead or coated lead.

Your closest Accurate/Western/Ramshot load data is for 124gr:

Standard Pressure

2.6gr - 2.9gr for 954 feet/sec @ 34,713 PSI

+P .

2.9gr - 3.2gr for 999 feet/sec @ 38,031 PSI

Your 1.13 OAL is quite a bit longer than the 1.05 OAL reported in the data, but without knowing the length of the actual bullet in the data, we can't actually compare how deeply the bullet is seated into case, and that's where the primary pressure differential would come from. I can tell you that I have 124/125 gr lead bullets that seat to the same depth at a .04 difference in OAL, so the .08 difference between your OAL and the load data's might not be as big as it looks.

So you're at 3.65 grains of powder when the powder manufacturer's max charge for +P data is 3.2gr? The data would suggest you're higher than +P pressures, possibly over 40,000 PSI. Load data is there for a reason. Use it.

And run this little test for yourself. Find the fastest powder that you can find that still allows you to make minor within published load data, not Benos.com "Works great for me!" load data. Published data. Develop a minor PF load to the same bullet at the same PF as your RS Comp load. Shoot them side by side with a timer. Can you feel the difference? Does RS Comp help your split times?

We tend to chase "soft" on the presumption that softer is better, and we tend to evaluate one soft vs another based on burn rates, not head-to-head comparisons. I can tell you that with the same bullet in the same pistol at the same PF, I can definitely FEEL the difference between a very fast powder like Bullseye vs a slower powder like Silhouette -- I can FEEL it -- but it means almost nothing in terms of split times. Now, get those powders closer together in burn rate. Start comparing Bullseye to American Select to HP-38 to Titegroup to N320, and now the difference in even feel fades away, much less actual splits. You can load a bullet to 127 PF with RS Comp and think "Wow, soft," and you'd be correct, but can you tell the difference between the RS Comp "Wow, soft" @ PF 127 and the N320 "Wow, soft" at PF 127. Maybe you can? I can't. And it doesn't mean anything in terms of splits. We chase these super soft recoiling loads at the cost of over-pressured abuse on our pistols as if it's worth it, as if soft loads are the holy grail. If "soft" felt recoil were the holy grail, everyone would be shooting .45 minor in production, yet almost no one does, and zero pros do.

Food for thought.

[remoandiris]

Would using lighter, 124/5 or 135, bullets allow me to achieve power factor better with lesser amounts of powder, making it safer?

No. Lighter bullets require more powder to achieve the same PF. There is a reason 147 gr is the most popular bullet weight for Production at Nats.

In my experience, Clays is softer than Ramshot. I used RS for a few years when it was all I could find.

[Duke Nukem]

I just chronoed these loads out of an Accu Shadow. All at 1.15 with an Extreme 147 bullet.

3.1 Clays 131 PF

3.4 Ramshot comp 135 PF

3.4 N320 135PF

This was at 57 degrees outside.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Duke Nukem

[rev1911]

I have to say, I am a bit baffled by how many claim that Ramshot Comp can be loaded similarly to N320 and TG. I have used quite a bit of Comp in .45ACP, and in my chrono testing it is even faster than N310, let alone N320.

I once tried some 115gr 9mm with Comp at charge weights I would typically use for N320 or TG, and the velocities came out significantly higher than I expected, enough so that I stopped and pulled the bullets because I didn't think it was safe.

There seem to be so many people on here with good experiences and chrono data (like the post just above), it almost makes me wonder if I got a hotter than normal batch of comp or something.

Edited March 28, 2016 by rev1911

[e-mishka]

I use RC in .40 major with no problems, just wanted to try in 9. Ill try longer oal and/or less powder and see what comes out

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[FortyOverUnder]

I use RC in .40 major with no problems, just wanted to try in 9. Ill try longer oal and/or less powder and see what comes out

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I digress, but what's your 40 load?

[e-mishka]

I use RC in .40 major with no problems, just wanted to try in 9. Ill try longer oal and/or less powder and see what comes out

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I digress, but what's your 40 load?

From top of my head its 4.7gn ( i can double check when I get home) at 1.135 oal, this gets me to 170 pf out of my Tanfo Limited. If weather is 90+ velocity drops a bit.

Ramshot Comp is reverse temp sensitive, I only use n320 for major matches though.

[DenverDave]

"From top of my head its 4.7gn ( i can double check when I get home) at 1.135 oal, this gets me to 170 pf out of my Tanfo Limited. If weather is 90+ velocity drops a bit.

Ramshot Comp is reverse temp sensitive,"

What weight and manufacture projectile are you using?
(I also have a TF Limited I am trying to work up some loads for, so far ZIP has been the best)

[e-mishka]

"From top of my head its 4.7gn ( i can double check when I get home) at 1.135 oal, this gets me to 170 pf out of my Tanfo Limited. If weather is 90+ velocity drops a bit.

Ramshot Comp is reverse temp sensitive,"

What weight and manufacture projectile are you using?

(I also have a TF Limited I am trying to work up some loads for, so far ZIP has been the best)

Its 180gn coated flat point

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[e-mishka]

I loaded some Ramshot Comp 3.65 gn at 1.130 oal under 125gn loaded bullet. Came out to 127.5 pf in my Tanfo stock 2 . It felt nice and soft, clean too. However i noticed that primers were somewhat flattened out. What are the consequences might be of using this load?

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I tried longer oal today 1.150 and Im still getting flattened primers (fed spp). I think im gonna use RC for 40 major only.

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[v1911]

Federal are a notoriously soft primer. Have you tried something firmer like CCI?

Edit: I ask because I've loaded 147gr with 3.4gr under it and not had flattened primers. That was with both S&B and CCI primers. I also was loading to 1.150 OAL. Apples to apples, the 147gr would have less case space than a 124gr loaded to the same OAL. That was Zero JHP and I was getting 140pf.

Edited April 1, 2016 by v1911

[granderojo]

Can you post some pics of your primers?

v1911 is right, the Feds are the softest cups. Thai's why Revo shooters use them.

Before you dump the powder, try some factory Fed and look at their primers and/or try a different manufacture of primer, Win, CCI etc.

[e-mishka]

I still gonna use RC for 40 major. I dumped that brass in to my dirty brass bucket couple days ago, so pics unfortunately. What I also noticed, that ejection was very week with this load. I did try 1.140 and 1.150 and it was no difference.