motosapiens Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) How can a MD or anyone running a match plan for refunds under this type of situation. Plan on giving a discount for the next match, come on Really??? who was "affected" by the rain (insert weather condition) for next match. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, and I apologize for getting you all defensive. I'm not trying to second-guess what y'all did, but just talking about the subject in the abstract. I wasn't talking about people who were 'affected' by weather, but people who were denied the opportunity to finish an event they had contracted for. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider trying to make up for that. Obviously you do, and that doesn't bother me. I don't know enough about the specifics of this particular event to comment further than to say I think it's reasonable to at least talk about it rather than categorically dismiss the idea. I've given people free entry to their next match when we've had a snafu of some sort (but it's only a weekly steel match, so not really the same thing as we're talking about in this thread). Edited May 21, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 ROFL, Oh really that is a good one.... You said Denied.... Reread the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudambl Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 How can a MD or anyone running a match plan for refunds under this type of situation. Plan on giving a discount for the next match, come on Really??? who was "affected" by the rain (insert weather condition) for next match. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, and I apologize for getting you all defensive. I'm not trying to second-guess what y'all did, but just talking about the subject in the abstract. I wasn't talking about people who were 'affected' by weather, but people who were denied the opportunity to finish an event they had contracted for. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider trying to make up for that. Obviously you do, and that doesn't bother me. I don't know enough about the specifics of this particular event to comment further than to say I think it's reasonable to at least talk about it rather than categorically dismiss the idea. I've given people free entry to their next match when we've had a snafu of some sort (but it's only a weekly steel match, so not really the same thing as we're talking about in this thread). Sir, we do not offer a refund to no-shows. I will not offer a refund to someone who shot 8 out of 9 stages and chose not to show up for the remainder of the match (for whatever reason) Per the rules we did everything required of us. There was no win-win solution for some of the competitors. For that, i am sorry. This is not a business, it is a volunteer sport. We do not get paid for our services. Both the RM, myself and all of the staff at the event take time from our personal lives to put an event on the ground for your enjoyment. The money paid into the even goes solely to support all of our efforts and to improve the VA/MD section. If this were a business and you were interested in "making money" then you would consider that old adage "the customer is always right". In this sport, the rules are always right and if you want to make an appeal you go to arbitration. There was absolutely a chance for any competitor that felt the call was wrong they could have put their money up and called us out. there was 16 hours in the match day of Sunday to do so. Since that did not happen, I have figured out three very important things about this thread. 1. some people need to find a place to vent their feelings. 2. next year will have a weather clause 3. the "unfollow thread" button is in the top right corner. have a great shooting year and I hope to see everyone shooting Alphas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 No one was denied anything?!!? Those who couldn't finish that night were offered a chance to finish up Sunday morning. If they didn't take advantage of that, that's their problem, not the match staff's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) How can a MD or anyone running a match plan for refunds under this type of situation. Plan on giving a discount for the next match, come on Really??? who was "affected" by the rain (insert weather condition) for next match. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, and I apologize for getting you all defensive. I'm not trying to second-guess what y'all did, but just talking about the subject in the abstract. I wasn't talking about people who were 'affected' by weather, but people who were denied the opportunity to finish an event they had contracted for. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider trying to make up for that. Obviously you do, and that doesn't bother me. I don't know enough about the specifics of this particular event to comment further than to say I think it's reasonable to at least talk about it rather than categorically dismiss the idea. I've given people free entry to their next match when we've had a snafu of some sort (but it's only a weekly steel match, so not really the same thing as we're talking about in this thread). Sir, we do not offer a refund to no-shows. I will not offer a refund to someone who shot 8 out of 9 stages and chose not to show up for the remainder of the match (for whatever reason) Per the rules we did everything required of us. There was no win-win solution for some of the competitors. For that, i am sorry. This is not a business, it is a volunteer sport. We do not get paid for our services. Both the RM, myself and all of the staff at the event take time from our personal lives to put an event on the ground for your enjoyment. The money paid into the even goes solely to support all of our efforts and to improve the VA/MD section. If this were a business and you were interested in "making money" then you would consider that old adage "the customer is always right". In this sport, the rules are always right and if you want to make an appeal you go to arbitration. There was absolutely a chance for any competitor that felt the call was wrong they could have put their money up and called us out. there was 16 hours in the match day of Sunday to do so. Since that did not happen, I have figured out three very important things about this thread. 1. some people need to find a place to vent their feelings. 2. next year will have a weather clause 3. the "unfollow thread" button is in the top right corner. have a great shooting year and I hope to see everyone shooting Alphas Yep. All this thread did was make all the MD's at bigger matches consider putting in some sort of "In the event of unforeseen torrential downpour, felled trees, lightning strikes, tornado warning or otherwise that forces shooting activities to be halted for safety reasons, the match may or may not be completed on your assigned shooting day. Attendance in this match is contingent on accepting this possibility" Edited May 22, 2015 by waktasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Yep. Not great for the sport, all in all. Although it did get me to thinking about my own feelings about this. It would he disappointing, of course, but it's "force of nature" and beyond our control. I believe I would want to chalk it up to karma and come back next year. The staff all worked hard on this and deserve our appreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I wouldn't go that far. The guy is entitled to have his opinion, even if it's a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsk Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm fat and out of shape and the heat really got to me by my second to last stage. Can I get a refund? Seriously though everyone was given the opportunity to shoot the entire match. Why would they get anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) ROFL, Oh really that is a good one.... You said Denied.... Reread the thread. I think 'denied' is the appropriate descriptive word. Sorry if it rubs you the wrong way. Instead of looking at this as someone attacking you and getting all defensive, consider it in a more general way. Note that I'm not saying y'all did anything wrong. I just thought your blanket statement that it's not even worth considering or discussing some alternative was a bit closed-minded. Perhaps in this situation you thought of all that stuff, and that's cool, but in the general sense of stuff going wrong that prevents people from finishing on time, I don't think it's unreasonable to be flexible and think about or discuss various solutions. Maybe all that's needed is for participants to understand the possibility that there might not be enough time to finish the match on the scheduled day. Edited May 26, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 He wasn't denied the opportunity at all. Everyone had the chance to shoot their last stage on Sunday. Yes it was a change to the shooting schedule but what else could have been done? You can't throw half the match out because rain caused 1 or 2 people on half the squads to not shoot a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 He wasn't denied the opportunity at all. Everyone had the chance to shoot their last stage on Sunday. Yes it was a change to the shooting schedule but what else could have been done? You can't throw half the match out because rain caused 1 or 2 people on half the squads to not shoot a stage. Ok, I can see a bill-clinton style logic to that argument. How about 'denied the opportunity to finish the match on the scheduled day'? Does that leave less wiggle room? Obviously you can't throw out all the affected stages, and I would never suggest something like that. I don't know what else could have been done, or if anything else *should* have been done. My only point is that (outside of the context of this particular match) it's not completely out of the question to at least think about it, discuss it, or entertain possible solutions or mitigations when something like this comes up. Nik had some ideas earlier, that might or might not have helped in this case. I've done stuff at our local steel matches before. I'm not suggesting those things should have been done here, just suggesting that in general, it's reasonable to consider them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explosivewhale Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Well....if it's lightning, I would rather go home and shoot another time. Scores don't matter,they're merely numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I really enjoyed this match. Thank you again for your hard work and dedication, and stepping up to make the calls that no one wants to have to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PX4StormShadow Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I not only shot this match but also RO'd a stage and in my opinion MD & RM had the responsibility to make a very unwelcomed call. They had to call the match that night due to stage conditions as they were very much unsafe and the Staff was asked to try and arrive at teh range earlier sunday morning so that the stages could be prepped and restored as quickly as possible so that we could get those that opted to come back thru first thing to get them on the road. as some have mentioned a very large tree did fall across one stage; if someone had been hit by that tree or injured because another accident the majority of you would be griping because the MD or RM didn't call the match. The reality is 90% of you would have made the same Call that the MD & RM made if it was you in that position that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowlmouths Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Practical Pistol Show 48- Rain Shutting it down: This says it all! Thanks again for putting on a great match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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