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Level II,shooting stopped because of rain


ebg3

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Not sure if this should go in Rules or here. I recently shot a Level II match and before my squad could finish our last stage, the MD called for all shooting to cease and for the shooters to leave the ranges due to a thunderstorm. We had three shooters left, me included, that were not allowed to finish the stage. Everyone waited around for about an hour before the match was called for the day and it was getting dark. The option to come back Sunday morning to shoot the stage or receive a DNF was given. Now,here is my question; If I signed up to shoot the whole match Saturday afternoon and was ready and willing to shoot my last stage in the rain but was denied the opportunity how can I fairly be given a DNF or zero for that stage? Returning to shoot on Sunday was not feasible and not during my scheduled shooting time. Should there be another way to resolve a problem like this? I don't think this is addressed in the rule book. Feedback?

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Your safety and the safety of the other competitors and staff comes before your match score. I am sorry you didn't get to finish, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Take it as a life lesson that sometimes things just don't work out and move on and keep shooting.

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Probably called because of lightning and not rain. That's a safety issue and in my opinion trumps trying to finish a few shooters. As much as it may suck they did offer to let you finish the match. MD's can't be concerned with who and why must head home at a certain time. If it happened as you say I think they did their best under the circumstances

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Yeah, there's a rule for that:

2.3.6 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) deems that climatic or other conditions have, or are likely to, seriously affect the safety and/or conduct of a match, he may order that all shooting activities be suspended, until he issues a “resume shooting” directive.

The RM has the authority if he/she feels it necessary to shut down for the day. Could be anything like flooded bays, have to replace targets because they didn't get bagged in time, the RM was a wuss, whatever. The RM can make the call...

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I am the MD for this match and it was indeed a safety call. There were nearby lightening strikes, I winds and heavy rains. Two or three bays flooded completely to where the fault lines were under murky water. Shortly after clearing the range a large tree fell near the shooting area on one bay.

We made the option to finish shooting after waiting a reasonable amount of time for the weather to lighten up. It did not let up and dusk was upon us. The option to shoot the following day was provided and many took advantage of that.

While a shooter might feel the risk for them is worth finishing a stage it was our responsibility to ensure the safety for everyone. Including the 40 staff in attendance.

I am sorry you did not get to finish but this was extraordinary circumstances.

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If all shooters were not given an opportunity to complete all stages, any stages that were not able to be shot by everyone SHOULD have been thrown out!

2.3.4 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) determines that the physical or procedural change results in a loss of competitive equity and it is impossible for all competitors to attempt the revised stage, or if the stage has been rendered unsuitable or unworkable for any reason, that stage and all associated competitor scores must be deleted from the match.

This is really no different than if a piece of range equipment broke, and could not be fixed until the next day. The fact that the weather was better the next day, or that the equipment might have been fixed the next day, does not change the fact that shooters who were authorized to shoot the match in 1 day did not get a chance to shoot the stage.

As the MD, you chose to offer competitors the option of shooting the match in 1 day, You can't penalize them if they fail to complete a stage because of inclement weather or other issues that are out of their control, and since you offered them the option to shoot the match in a 1 day format, you can't require them to come back for a second day and complete the match. 1 day format means exactly that.

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If all shooters were not given an opportunity to complete all stages, any stages that were not able to be shot by everyone SHOULD have been thrown out!

When the match director says they can come back on Sunday and finish, that is the opportunity to complete all stages. If the person can't make it back, that is not on the MD to fix.

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2.3.6 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) deems

that climatic or other conditions have, or are likely to, seriously affect

the safety and/or conduct of a match, he may order that all shooting

activities be suspended, until he issues a resume shooting directive.

The resume shooting directive could only be given the following day.

2.3.4 pertains to making changes to a course of fire.

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I am the MD for this match and it was indeed a safety call. There were nearby lightening strikes, I winds and heavy rains. Two or three bays flooded completely to where the fault lines were under murky water. Shortly after clearing the range a large tree fell near the shooting area on one bay.

We made the option to finish shooting after waiting a reasonable amount of time for the weather to lighten up. It did not let up and dusk was upon us. The option to shoot the following day was provided and many took advantage of that.

While a shooter might feel the risk for them is worth finishing a stage it was our responsibility to ensure the safety for everyone. Including the 40 staff in attendance.

I am sorry you did not get to finish but this was extraordinary circumstances.

Sounds like you made the right call then...I think most of us would have done the same thing.

To the OP, this is something you have to think about when traveling for matches (plan for next day shooting due to weather).

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I am the RM in this case, and I held out on stopping the shooting as long as I could, Hell I held out on Bagging the targets as long as I could to have all the shooters have the "same:" target presentations as I could, it was a good rain and I knew that there where many squads with a few shooters left to clear the last COF.

But when high winds and heavy lightning came in I had to stop the shooting for EVERYONES safety. I asked all the shooters to stay until I could make the final call, if there was any chance on getting everyone through I was going to wait it out, but sadly that was not the case, and I offered to everyone the chance to come back and finish the match. As Bill (the MD) pointed out many did just that. I even held out hope that some the shooters from as far way as NC would comeback and finish.

At Single Stack Nationals this year on Friday we have an hour and half rain delay and some shooters were worried that we would not finish before dark, lucky for us that was not the case and all finished.

As an RM that is the hardest call to make, I now know because I had to make it, and some of the top shooters in the match did not get finish, shooters that could have and may have won their divisions.

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Reminds me of the Western States Single Stack Championship a few years ago. Rained so hard I thought I seen folks building an ark. Felt sorry for the RO's and CRO's. They hung in there like a champ. Personally if they would of called the match because of safety reasons I would of understood.

Drove 7 hours to shoot the match.

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John,

it was two full squads and 2-3 from two other squads, so about 20-24 shooters, and 13 of them came back to finish the match, so all in told about 10 shooters did not finish across 4 stages.

I made the right call, if some don't like it, well I cant fix that, Mother Nature does not answer to me, nor do peoples travel plans. I offered, and that was all I could do.

By 8am the next day the range was ready to shoot after we put down some stone dust, and moved the 60 foot tree off of one of the stages.

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2.3.6 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) deems

that climatic or other conditions have, or are likely to, seriously affect

the safety and/or conduct of a match, he may order that all shooting

activities be suspended, until he issues a resume shooting directive.

The resume shooting directive could only be given the following day.

2.3.4 pertains to making changes to a course of fire.

or if the stage has been rendered unsuitable or unworkable for any reason,

Weather conditions that affect the safety of the stage and make it unsafe would apply in this instance.

Also, as I said, offering the shooter the option to come back is NOT an answer. You offered them the option to shoot the match in 1 day, If you weren't going to honor that, you shouldn't have offered it, Shooters cannot be held responsible for acts of God, or your shortsightedness as a MD.

Totally wrong call, IMO. The stage should have been thrown out.

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2.3.6 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) deems

that climatic or other conditions have, or are likely to, seriously affect

the safety and/or conduct of a match, he may order that all shooting

activities be suspended, until he issues a resume shooting directive.

The resume shooting directive could only be given the following day.

2.3.4 pertains to making changes to a course of fire.

or if the stage has been rendered unsuitable or unworkable for any reason,

Weather conditions that affect the safety of the stage and make it unsafe would apply in this instance.

Also, as I said, offering the shooter the option to come back is NOT an answer. You offered them the option to shoot the match in 1 day, If you weren't going to honor that, you shouldn't have offered it, Shooters cannot be held responsible for acts of God, or your shortsightedness as a MD.

Totally wrong call, IMO. The stage should have been thrown out.

I will be glad to add acts of od to my foresight projections. Thanks

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If all shooters were not given an opportunity to complete all stages, any stages that were not able to be shot by everyone SHOULD have been thrown out!

2.3.4 If the Range Master (in consultation with the Match Director) determines that the physical or procedural change results in a loss of competitive equity and it is impossible for all competitors to attempt the revised stage, or if the stage has been rendered unsuitable or unworkable for any reason, that stage and all associated competitor scores must be deleted from the match.

This is really no different than if a piece of range equipment broke, and could not be fixed until the next day. The fact that the weather was better the next day, or that the equipment might have been fixed the next day, does not change the fact that shooters who were authorized to shoot the match in 1 day did not get a chance to shoot the stage.

As the MD, you chose to offer competitors the option of shooting the match in 1 day, You can't penalize them if they fail to complete a stage because of inclement weather or other issues that are out of their control, and since you offered them the option to shoot the match in a 1 day format, you can't require them to come back for a second day and complete the match. 1 day format means exactly that.

THIS - per the referenced rule, the affected stages should have been deleted from the match. With this said, it sounds like the RM made the right call to suspend shooting... sometimes bad stuff just happens, and it is nobody's fault.

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Parallax3d,

I see that you are a CRO, so you are telling me you would have been happy to be on the stage that had a 60 foot tree fall on it, or the 10 inches of water, just so a few shooters could finish a match.

Lucky for my Staff and the shooters at the match you where not in charge, because someone might have been hurt.

You can have all the opinions you want, but you where not there and did not have 100 peoples safety to think about. So stop telling me that I was wrong or made a bad call. All the shooters where given the chance to finish, this was a three day match and just because they signed up for one of the three days NEVER guarantees them to finish in that one day, we play outdoors and sometimes the weather does not allow that to happen.

So rather then throw the whole match out as you are suggesting, 10 or so shooters got a DNF and life goes on.

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John,

it was two full squads and 2-3 from two other squads, so about 20-24 shooters, and 13 of them came back to finish the match, so all in told about 10 shooters did not finish across 4 stages.

It is kind of Hard to threw out Four Stages in a Match!!

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Replies duly noted by all...What an unfortunate event...for the shooters affected as such...Certainly, this was a call that made things hard on the MD , staff and shooters..and a hard pill to swallow for all affected. ..

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Parallax3d,

I see that you are a CRO, so you are telling me you would have been happy to be on the stage that had a 60 foot tree fall on it, or the 10 inches of water, just so a few shooters could finish a match.

Lucky for my Staff and the shooters at the match you where not in charge, because someone might have been hurt.

You can have all the opinions you want, but you where not there and did not have 100 peoples safety to think about. So stop telling me that I was wrong or made a bad call. All the shooters where given the chance to finish, this was a three day match and just because they signed up for one of the three days NEVER guarantees them to finish in that one day, we play outdoors and sometimes the weather does not allow that to happen.

So rather then throw the whole match out as you are suggesting, 10 or so shooters got a DNF and life goes on.

Let it go. You made the right call.

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