Location of Safe Areas

[Braxton1]

I know that it's not a "Rule", per se, as it is up to the Match Directors, but do you think that we should stop putting Safe Areas inside the same bays as Stages?

IMHO, it is too confusing, because you have some tables that are OK to use in close proximity to other tables that are forbidden.

I have seen this scenario several times with this setup: Shooter walks off the stage after completing it. He has a double handful of partially empty magazines that have just been handed to him by other shooters clearing the stage. The Clipboard RO comes up to the guy to get his signature on the scoresheet. Shooter absent-mindedly sits his magazines down to sign the sheet. He's now handled ammunition in a Safe Area. By the rules, it's a DQ.

Another issue is that these Safe Areas are often set up facing a side berm. If that is at the extreme uprange end of the berm, the shooter in the Safe Area can point a gun in all sorts of directions where bystanders could wander into. I've been walking along a range road and found myself within 15 degrees or so of a muzzle, all while the guy in the Safe Area was pointed at the dryfire target. A little disconcerting, to say the least.

The best Safe Areas that I've ever seen are at a local club here in Georgia. They're in the endcaps of the berms and actually inset into it. The table is surrounded on three sides by dirt.

Just a thought....

[George Jones]

The lead paragraph of Rule 2.4 addresses some of issues you mention.

Although safety area rules could be more detailed, it may not be realistic to make them so specific that some ranges could not comply.

Most shooters expect the match staff to locate and build them with due regard to safety. If you find something lacking and you think it is an unsafe condition, you (all of us) have a responsibility to identify it and help correct it.

I have seen excellent safety areas (such as you mention), some very minimal safety areas, and some invisible safety areas. My hope is that we first fix the invisible ones. Once those are extinct, we can improve what's left.

[Sarge]

Very well said!

But I will stick to the KISS principle and agree with the op that in general safety areas in stage bays are a bad idea

[Reshoot]

Very well said!

But I will stick to the KISS principle and agree with the op that in general safety areas in stage bays are a bad idea

I agree! I have yet to see a safety area within a shooting bay, and would probably be uncomfortable in such an environment.

[motosapiens]

Very well said!

But I will stick to the KISS principle and agree with the op that in general safety areas in stage bays are a bad idea

I agree! I have yet to see a safety area within a shooting bay, and would probably be uncomfortable in such an environment.

At nationals in st george there was a safety area in almost every bay. I didn't see any problems with that. They were clearly marked, facing into the side berms, and well away from the tables and shelters set out for shooters and staff. With the size of the squads having fewer safe areas would have created some real crowding problems.

It would be optimal to have safe areas dug several feet into the end berms between the bays, but wherever they are, shooters should be cognizant of their muzzle direction, even tho everyone knows they are not handling ammo or even dummy rounds.

Edited March 19, 2015 by motosapiens

[Hi-Power Jack]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

My local club (which is The Best I've ever seen), has a safe table in most of the

bays, which has to be handled cautiously - as mentioned when I place my

gun box on the table, if the table is to the left, my gun is pointing uprange

(that's the way it is in the box).

Also, if I need the safe table during a stage, there is sometimes a conflict

of the shooter and where I point my gun.

BUT, in addition, many ranges I've visited do NOT clearly mark which is

the Safe Table. (My local club just switched to a color code and clearly

defined Safe Table which leaves little room for misunderstanding.

A problem I've encountered is multiple tables - some with no markings

and some with small signs that say Safe Table.

I was DQ'd at a match, because I suited up at a table - I waited for a

shooter to finish up at a table, and then suited up there - only to be

DQ'd because it wasn't The Safe Table. Confusing.

If nothing else, there should be NO CONFUSION about whether the

table is a safe table or not.

[cnote]

Why do I recall something new about fault lines be required at safe tables ??????

[JAFO]

We have a safe table in almost every bay, facing into the side berm. They are painted bright yellow and are not located near any other tables that may allow them to be mistaken for regular-use tables. Yes, it's possible to sweep past the end of the berm, but the shooter should be mindful of their muzzle direction at all times. While I like the idea, our berms are just not wide enough to allow the tables to be built fully into the ends of the berms with 3-sided coverage.

Another range in town has the safe table past the last available bay. While that is potentially safer, it's really quite a walk when you have to go there from the first bay, and everyone has to share one table before and after the match.

[Parallax3D]

Why do I recall something new about fault lines be required at safe tables ??????

2.4 Safety Areas

The host organization is responsible for the construction and placement of a sufficient number of Safety Areas for the match.

They should be conveniently placed and easily identified with signs.

At level II or higher matches, Safety Areas must include a table with the safe direction and boundaries clearly shown.

We did that last year at the Illinois Sectional. If you wanted to handle the gun, you had to have BOTH feet inside the boundaries in front of the safety table. One foot out? Sorry, you're DQ'd.

I had to DQ someone at the IL Sectional in 2013 at Sparta, because of an issue like this. Sparta has tables at the end of their bays that have roofs over them, and those tables were marked as safe areas on some bays, but not all. I turned around to see a shooter dry firing at one of the tables that was NOT marked as a safe area. Hated to do it, because I know it was confusing, but rules are rules.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Parallax3D

[kitsapshooter]

"I had to DQ someone at the IL Sectional in 2013 at Sparta, because of an issue like this. Sparta has tables at the end of their bays that have roofs over them, and those tables were marked as safe areas on some bays, but not all. I turned around to see a shooter dry firing at one of the tables that was NOT marked as a safe area. Hated to do it, because I know it was confusing, but rules are rules."

Then the MD and the entire R/O staff was wrong if they did not point out and correct this issue. Confusion is one thing we should never have about safety areas.

At my home club each safety are is marked and across the access road from the bays. Cut into a berm with railroad ties for the sides and back. Marked with permanent signs there is no mistake from shooters.

[clintv]

Good thread. What's important is to be aware of the location of Safe Areas and if it is not well marked or confusing bring it to the attention of the RM.

[Parallax3D]

"I had to DQ someone at the IL Sectional in 2013 at Sparta, because of an issue like this. Sparta has tables at the end of their bays that have roofs over them, and those tables were marked as safe areas on some bays, but not all. I turned around to see a shooter dry firing at one of the tables that was NOT marked as a safe area. Hated to do it, because I know it was confusing, but rules are rules."

Then the MD and the entire R/O staff was wrong if they did not point out and correct this issue. Confusion is one thing we should never have about safety areas.

At my home club each safety are is marked and across the access road from the bays. Cut into a berm with railroad ties for the sides and back. Marked with permanent signs there is no mistake from shooters.

I don't see how the RM or the RO staff were at fault, The safety areas WERE clearly marked! It's just that not EVERY table in EVERY bay was a safety area. They even pointed this out during the shooter meeting. Not sure what is unclear about a big sign that says "SAFETY AREA." If you don't see the sign, then it's NOT a safety area, even if it looks like one.

And BTW - Sparta is owned by the state if Illinois, (World Sooting and Recreational Complex), so we work with what is available. They're not going to build safe areas with permanent signs to please one group of shooters who RENTED the range from them.

[thermobollocks]

There's a couple of ways I've seen it done. One is to have the railroad tie dugout setup that is predominant along Colorado's front range. We use a usually contiguous set of 4-6 berms for stages, so somewhere in the middle or one side is at least one safety hole. Some of the larger ranges will have a couple. I can imagine at an area match that amount of space would be insufficient. Places that don't have a safety dugout will usually designate one or more of the range's reserved bays as a safe handling area. That gets dodgy, though, since at club matches there's no boundary or table. Basically at the shooter's meeting they'll call out that "bay number 7 is a safety area," but it'd be nice to have a sign. This can lead to a situation that's also dodgy, what happens if someone needs to function fire a gun? If you've got a designated safety area you're not supposed to shoot in it, and by the rules you'd need an RO with you.

Even stranger if I'm at a USPSA match at my home range that I'm also a member of -- during a USPSA event can I wander off to one of the hot bays that the public uses to pop off a few sighters?

[WidowsSon683]

I don't see the problem. Every match I have been to, the safe areas have been well away from any other tables and clearly marked.

[teros135]

In Level II matches I've seen tables both in a separate area and tables faced directly into a berm, well back from the area containing the stage and with yet more berm beyond them uprange. You'd have to violate the "safe direction" (which is usually well marked) by quite a bit to have a gun pointing "uprange" of the backstop to where people might be.

These tables have been clearly marked as "Safety Areas", have the safe direction indicated, and often have lettering about "no ammunition".

The boundaries of the safety areas have been indicated in different ways, by the table itself in front, of course, and by a safety tape attached to stakes in the ground or by having boards (e.g., 2 x 2s) attached to the tabletop at either side and extending out a foot or so, to let the folks using the safety areas know where the left and right sides are. I've never seen anything that says a safety area has to be "surrounded" in some way - has anyone else?