revolver45 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have heard recently that the new S&W 929 PC has been having lockup issues. It appears that during extended use such as a competition the cases are backing out and causing the cylinder to jam. Has anyone out there experienced this problem? I have been shooting a 627 in 38 Special and also in 38 Super and never experienced any issues of any kind. Please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Not sure what "cases backing out is", I know the cylinder will bind if the ejector rod gets loose and backs out. I have heard cases where the titanium cylinder can cause a problem if it gets hot enough because the coefficient of expansion is different than steel. The cases I have personally had with cylinder binding and lockup on PC guns was caused by insufficient clearance between the cylinder and recoil shield (breech face). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 "Cases backing out" means the tapered case in the tapered chamber is coming back into the blast shield and binding the gun. With reloaded starline 9mm brass, and loads over 125PF my 929 was having issues similar to this. Still working through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 "Cases backing out" means the tapered case in the tapered chamber is coming back into the blast shield and binding the gun. I wonder if the cylinder could be machined with some rotary milling lines inside the tubes to give something for the brass to grab onto when it expands so it wouldn't try to move back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolver45 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 I appreciate your input. I am waiting for my 929 to come back from Pinnacle in PA and will begin the testing process. I'm thinking that if the problem persists, i will have the gun converted to 38 Super. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 38super might just drop right in as it sits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) 38 Super is smaller diameter than 9mm. It would drop in easily except for length. If the chamber has rotary lines inside for the brass to grab then it won't eject. Edited March 9, 2015 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have heard recently that the new S&W 929 PC has been having lockup issues. It appears that during extended use such as a competition the cases are backing out and causing the cylinder to jam. Has anyone out there experienced this problem? I have been shooting a 627 in 38 Special and also in 38 Super and never experienced any issues of any kind. Please advise. First hand, I haven't had this issue, even with 40-50 rounds of pretty quick shooting. Moreover, every case in a revolver (or auto) is forced back when the gun is fired. It would take a lot to force it back and expand it so much that it won't move in and out (have some play) that it would cause binding. In other words, if a case is forced back hard enough to bind the gun, I'd think ejection would be tough as the case would really have to be stuck in there. I will say I had to use Purple loctite on the ejector rod to keep it from backing out, and the cylinder gets HOT after long strings. But the issue mentioned is one I wouldn't lose sleep over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I ran 300 rounds through my 929 on Saturday with very little pauses in between moons just standing on a range by myself with a bunch of steel. I didn't have any trouble with binding or extraction. All brass was Starline brass cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I have heard recently that the new S&W 929 PC has been having lockup issues. It appears that during extended use such as a competition the cases are backing out and causing the cylinder to jam. Has anyone out there experienced this problem? I have been shooting a 627 in 38 Special and also in 38 Super and never experienced any issues of any kind. Please advise. First hand, I haven't had this issue, even with 40-50 rounds of pretty quick shooting. Moreover, every case in a revolver (or auto) is forced back when the gun is fired. It would take a lot to force it back and expand it so much that it won't move in and out (have some play) that it would cause binding. In other words, if a case is forced back hard enough to bind the gun, I'd think ejection would be tough as the case would really have to be stuck in there. That's what I thought. The brass expands at ignition (would bit into the cylinder walls) but the brass shrinks back a bit after ignition. I've never seen brass expand and not come back down such that it was too tight to move in the cylinder. That problem can happen with steel case ammo, but didn't think it would on brass. Steel does not return like brass which is why steel case ammo is hard on extractors. Edited March 10, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have heard recently that the new S&W 929 PC has been having lockup issues. It appears that during extended use such as a competition the cases are backing out and causing the cylinder to jam. Has anyone out there experienced this problem? I have been shooting a 627 in 38 Special and also in 38 Super and never experienced any issues of any kind. Please advise.First hand, I haven't had this issue, even with 40-50 rounds of pretty quick shooting. Moreover, every case in a revolver (or auto) is forced back when the gun is fired. It would take a lot to force it back and expand it so much that it won't move in and out (have some play) that it would cause binding. In other words, if a case is forced back hard enough to bind the gun, I'd think ejection would be tough as the case would really have to be stuck in there. The 547, the old k frame without moonclips, for lack of a better term had a second firing pin. This second pin was flattened on the face and hit the case rim to push the 9mm back into the chamber after firing so it wouldn't drag on the breachface. The tapered case was enough of a problem that they went through a fair bit of trouble to install 2 frame mounted pins during the time period that the other guns had their firing pins on the hammer. I believe the moon clips reduce the problem enough that the second firing pin is unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Here's a picture I found on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have heard recently that the new S&W 929 PC has been having lockup issues. It appears that during extended use such as a competition the cases are backing out and causing the cylinder to jam. Has anyone out there experienced this problem? I have been shooting a 627 in 38 Special and also in 38 Super and never experienced any issues of any kind. Please advise.First hand, I haven't had this issue, even with 40-50 rounds of pretty quick shooting. Moreover, every case in a revolver (or auto) is forced back when the gun is fired. It would take a lot to force it back and expand it so much that it won't move in and out (have some play) that it would cause binding. In other words, if a case is forced back hard enough to bind the gun, I'd think ejection would be tough as the case would really have to be stuck in there.The 547, the old k frame without moonclips, for lack of a better term had a second firing pin. This second pin was flattened on the face and hit the case rim to push the 9mm back into the chamber after firing so it wouldn't drag on the breachface.The tapered case was enough of a problem that they went through a fair bit of trouble to install 2 frame mounted pins during the time period that the other guns had their firing pins on the hammer. I believe the moon clips reduce the problem enough that the second firing pin is unnecessary. Not very familiar with the 547, but enough to know its a totally different animal than the 929. Tapered case aside its no different than shooting a moon clipped 38. And there's nothing about the taper that would make it inherently more likely to stick / drag. High primers, out of spec moonclips, or a loose ejector rod all seem more likely culprits than something 9mm specific. I've got complaints about my 929, but this ain't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Somebody should ask James McGinty what load he runs in his 929. He shot that gun last year at Revo Nats and everything worked plenty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Somebody should ask James McGinty what load he runs in his 929. He shot that gun last year at Revo Nats and everything worked plenty well. The load is nothing special, a typical 147gr/n320 recipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Somebody should ask James McGinty what load he runs in his 929. He shot that gun last year at Revo Nats and everything worked plenty well. The load is nothing special, a typical 147gr/n320 recipe flat primers and all. heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Somebody should ask James McGinty what load he runs in his 929. He shot that gun last year at Revo Nats and everything worked plenty well.The load is nothing special, a typical 147gr/n320 recipe flat primers and all. heh. Must be a pretty hot load - although I guess I still haven't worked up a true minor load for my 929... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Somebody should ask James McGinty what load he runs in his 929. He shot that gun last year at Revo Nats and everything worked plenty well.The load is nothing special, a typical 147gr/n320 recipe flat primers and all. heh. Must be a pretty hot load - although I guess I still haven't worked up a true minor load for my 929... I haven't heard of a single 929 yet that makes minor with loads that easily make 130+ in a typical 4.75" autos. I also have seen myself and heard frequently about flat primers even with sub minor, the working theory seems to be that the case smashes back against the blastshield when firing and flattens. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Flat primers in revolvers are frequently due to the case moving back at firing. Revolvers require a bit of headspace to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just received my 929 back from Apex and test fired today. Full comp action job + chamfering. First load was very "sticky" - difficult to extract (fast powder?) 3.5 gr Win 231 147 gr X-treme RN 1.12 OAL Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just received my 929 back from Apex and test fired today. Full comp action job + chamfering. First load was very "sticky" - difficult to extract (fast powder?) 3.5 gr Win 231 147 gr X-treme RN 1.12 OAL Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load That first load sounds a little short which might contribute to higher pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just received my 929 back from Apex and test fired today. Full comp action job + chamfering. First load was very "sticky" - difficult to extract (fast powder?) 3.5 gr Win 231 147 gr X-treme RN 1.12 OAL Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load Another trend I've been seeing with 929s and the pressure issue is which bullets someone is using. Coated bullets usually require .5-.7gr less powder than plated, less powder less pressure, might be something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load Same load w 2.6 GR N320 made 115 PF, 2.7 GR made 120 PF. So that's probably right in the ball park. How's accuracy? Are you using the 9mm or.357 Bayous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load Same load w 2.6 GR N320 made 115 PF, 2.7 GR made 120 PF. So that's probably right in the ball park. How's accuracy? Are you using the 9mm or.357 Bayous? Using 9mm (.356) Bayous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm400 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just received my 929 back from Apex and test fired today. Full comp action job + chamfering. First load was very "sticky" - difficult to extract (fast powder?) 3.5 gr Win 231 147 gr X-treme RN 1.12 OAL Second load extracted fine 2.9gr N320 160 Bayou RN 1.145 OAL No Chrono yet on either load That first load sounds a little short which might contribute to higher pressure? My Lyman (49th edition) shows 1.115 OAL and thus is the suggested starting load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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