S&W 929 Cylinder Lockup Issues

[KnurlingTurtle]

Chrono'd 10-5-14 at 6k ft, 60 deg, sunny.

16 shots.

Avg 1044fps

PF 120

It wasn't under 50 degrees when the sticky extraction started. I didn't consider weather so that was worth a look. I thought it would be something simple that I'm overlooking but I'm at a loss.

I guess the next step is to try some factory ball ammo and see if that has issues. I'll do that sunday.

[Brad P]

I have had my 929 for a couple of months now. Have been using TC moon clips with R-P Brass 124 grn Bayou bullets 3.0 grns Clays no extraction problems. I bought 500 cases from Starline using the same load and can not get to extract have called Hunter at Starline he can not figure out and Mike at Hodgdon Powder also said to try using a different bullet. ANY IDEAS

[DougCarden]

If you can, shoot some of the new brass in another gun and reload it and then try it in the 929. I recently loaded some new starline 9mm with 160s and had a pronounced bulge in the brass. I didnt' have any bulge with commercial once fired cases. If the brass internal volume is different or less with the load you will have a different pressure curve than the other commercial brass as they have more internal volume.....just spitballing here but something to try.......What a PITA huh.....

DougC

[ktm400]

I'm having sticky extraction in my 929.

115g plated rn bullets

4.0gn E3

fed match spp

starline brass

I've shot a few hundred rounds over a couple months with no issue right out of the box. I was trying to decide if I was going to do the trigger job and replace springs or send it to Apex to work it over. I'm not confident in my abilities and the parts aren't easily replaceable if I mess something up so I've decided it's going to be sent it off for the tune up.

I've since decided I want to buy a place with acreage and put myself on a self-imposed spending freeze which means my 929 is on hold.

Last week I took it out and it wouldn't extract after the first moon. The cylinder bound up during the second moon. Apparently the yolk screw had worked loose and the cylinder and crane came completely off during cleaning. Oops, I put some blue Loctite on the screw after finishing the cleaning.

I went to the range yesterday and found the same extraction issue. It made me cuss.

I didn't have any factory ammo or other loads to test but extraction wasn't an issue with the exact same load a couple of months ago.

Thoughts on why it was running fine and now I'm having this issue?

It's the Starline brass - I discovered this ( with a heads up from MWP) today during chrono. PF at 138 very sticky with Starline - same load with Fed brass easily extracted.

[KnurlingTurtle]

I'm having sticky extraction in my 929.

115g plated rn bullets

4.0gn E3

fed match spp

starline brass

I've shot a few hundred rounds over a couple months with no issue right out of the box. I was trying to decide if I was going to do the trigger job and replace springs or send it to Apex to work it over. I'm not confident in my abilities and the parts aren't easily replaceable if I mess something up so I've decided it's going to be sent it off for the tune up.

I've since decided I want to buy a place with acreage and put myself on a self-imposed spending freeze which means my 929 is on hold.

Last week I took it out and it wouldn't extract after the first moon. The cylinder bound up during the second moon. Apparently the yolk screw had worked loose and the cylinder and crane came completely off during cleaning. Oops, I put some blue Loctite on the screw after finishing the cleaning.

I went to the range yesterday and found the same extraction issue. It made me cuss.

I didn't have any factory ammo or other loads to test but extraction wasn't an issue with the exact same load a couple of months ago.

Thoughts on why it was running fine and now I'm having this issue?

It's the Starline brass - I discovered this ( with a heads up from MWP) today during chrono. PF at 138 very sticky with Starline - same load with Fed brass easily extracted.

Yeah, it's the flippin brass. I knew it would be something simple. Pretty annoying to have 1K starline 9mm brass and TK clips since it looks like the cheap stuff is the only brass that will actually work.

I shot 2 moons of PMC factory ammo and had no problems with extraction. I did have 2 failure to fires so that's lame.

I tried 115gn plated round nose, 4.0gn Titegroup, mixed range brass and CCI primers. Not one round would ignite. I tried the factory moon and a TK moonclip. I guess CCI is too hard. I haven't touched the mainspring so this 929 is straight stock.

[ktm400]

I tried some factory Amer Eagle 115 gr, 9 mm yesterday. Chronoed at 139 PF and ZERO difficulty in extraction. 50% fire rate on first time around on this Apex tuned platform.

[sargenv]

I'm sort of wondering if people are loading the 929 like it's a 38 spl.. You need remember that we can use 3 or 3.5 gr of fast powder X and not have extraction issues since it's relatively low pressure in the 38/357.. maybe at most 20k psi.. the 9mm is generally a higher pressure round and we need to bring that into consideration. I tried loading my 38 super 627 like I did my 357-627 and it just couldn't be done. I tried about 10 different powders before settling in to using Herco and 147 gr extremes.. A relatively slow burning powder (as compared to N320, N310, Bullseye, 231, etc) and I stopped encountering any case sticking issues and my PF is right where I need it, at about 134 PF. I could probably drop by .2 to 4.3 gr but why mess with something that now works.. I worked up the load from 4.5 - 5.5 by .2 gr. PF went from a low of 134 to 150 at the top end.. and I still had at least another 1/2 grain to work up if I wanted to.. (which I did not need to). If I were loading the 9mm in the 929, I would stick to powders that are inthe medium to medium slow range to get positive extraction and lower pressures. HS6, Autocomp, Unique, Herco, N340, WSF, or something similar in burn rate.. with the 6.5" tube and minor PF, the recoil and blast is going to be negligible.. It's not like we're trying to shoot 9 major..

Something to ponder..

[seanc]

I'm sort of wondering if people are loading the 929 like it's a 38 spl.. You need remember that we can use 3 or 3.5 gr of fast powder X and not have extraction issues since it's relatively low pressure in the 38/357.. maybe at most 20k psi.. the 9mm is generally a higher pressure round and we need to bring that into consideration. I tried loading my 38 super 627 like I did my 357-627 and it just couldn't be done. I tried about 10 different powders before settling in to using Herco and 147 gr extremes.. A relatively slow burning powder (as compared to N320, N310, Bullseye, 231, etc) and I stopped encountering any case sticking issues and my PF is right where I need it, at about 134 PF. I could probably drop by .2 to 4.3 gr but why mess with something that now works.. I worked up the load from 4.5 - 5.5 by .2 gr. PF went from a low of 134 to 150 at the top end.. and I still had at least another 1/2 grain to work up if I wanted to.. (which I did not need to). If I were loading the 9mm in the 929, I would stick to powders that are inthe medium to medium slow range to get positive extraction and lower pressures. HS6, Autocomp, Unique, Herco, N340, WSF, or something similar in burn rate.. with the 6.5" tube and minor PF, the recoil and blast is going to be negligible.. It's not like we're trying to shoot 9 major..

Something to ponder..

In the limited number of rounds I've shot so far, I think i am going to be ok with the fast stuff(clays and titegroup), but I do have 3n37, 3n38, and autocomp on hand for other endeavors.

I only tried 3n37 with 115g and this was decidely blasty. That said, I think of 3n37/8 as light bullets going very fast powder, but I just looked at the VV load manual and there is in fact published data for 147 plated and jacketed which is a welcome departure from the norm it seems.

I'm going to put this on the test path as well.

[9146gt]

I'm sort of wondering if people are loading the 929 like it's a 38 spl.. You need remember that we can use 3 or 3.5 gr of fast powder X and not have extraction issues since it's relatively low pressure in the 38/357.. maybe at most 20k psi.. the 9mm is generally a higher pressure round and we need to bring that into consideration. I tried loading my 38 super 627 like I did my 357-627 and it just couldn't be done. I tried about 10 different powders before settling in to using Herco and 147 gr extremes.. A relatively slow burning powder (as compared to N320, N310, Bullseye, 231, etc) and I stopped encountering any case sticking issues and my PF is right where I need it, at about 134 PF. I could probably drop by .2 to 4.3 gr but why mess with something that now works.. I worked up the load from 4.5 - 5.5 by .2 gr. PF went from a low of 134 to 150 at the top end.. and I still had at least another 1/2 grain to work up if I wanted to.. (which I did not need to). If I were loading the 9mm in the 929, I would stick to powders that are inthe medium to medium slow range to get positive extraction and lower pressures. HS6, Autocomp, Unique, Herco, N340, WSF, or something similar in burn rate.. with the 6.5" tube and minor PF, the recoil and blast is going to be negligible.. It's not like we're trying to shoot 9 major..

Something to ponder..

115 gr 9mm with Autocomp and 147 gr with WSF work well in my 929.

Tom

[missed it by that much]

I have a 38 super and load Titegroup which is a fast powder and have no extraction problems with 140 power factor

[Shadowrider]

Anybody tried WST and 147s?

I'm suspecting that sargenv is onto the problem being powders that are just too fast for the platform. I have a stash of e3 and titegroup and it sounds like they'll be a no-go whenever I do get a 929. Hoping that WST might work because I have a stash of that too. It'll really suck to have to get the gun, mods, clips, brass AND powder just to shoot revo.

[Tom Freeman]

I use TG with 147 and 165s. No issues at all.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Tom Freeman

[DougCarden]

WST is pretty fast in 9mm cases......Go slow.....If I had a gun and had sticky extraction issues I would have the cylinder reamed......hint hint......

DougC

[Toolguy]

Or polished...