Just getting started shooting, question about accuracy

[vnboileau]

I've shot guns in the past, but never consistently and never learned any fundamentals really

So, lately, I've been reading up here and put good triggers and sights in a Glock 17 and M&P9.

I've been going to the range about once a week and doing some static shooting. It's an indoor range where no drawing/movement is allowed. But frankly, I'm not really ready for that anyhow.

I'm just working on my fundamentals; stance, grip, trigger pull, seeing the front sight, not flinching, etc.

So, I guess my question is this; what kind of accuracy should I look be looking for? A certain group size at a certain distance?

[blairmckenzie1]

The A zone of a metric target is 11"X6" and the "head box" is about 6" X 6". If you can shoot in that zone from 3 yards to 20 yards thats a good start. That shouldn't be all that hard to start with.

As far as not being ready to move and shoot, I would say go to a match and at least watch one. You will learn more than standing at an indoor range banging away. As long as you can keep your gun pointed downrange and keep your finger out of the trigger guard while moving/reloading you are good to go. You have to start somewhere.

[Nimitz]

As a general rule Action shooters are not good group shooters ..... however, the importance of fundamental accuracy cannot be over stated IMO and therefore you should not settle for a particular group size as 'good enough'. Just like you can always go faster, you can always shoot a tighter group. The size of your group reveals where your fundamentals stand but a 3" slow fire group off hand at 25 yds is not unreasonable to expect ... the top shooters in our sport can make tight shots at speed because their fundamentals are rock solid.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Nimitz

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm working on fundamentals; stance, grip, trigger pull, seeing the front sight, not flinching, etc.

what kind of accuracy should I look be looking for?

Two thoughts:

1. if you're flinching, I'd work on that, exclusively. Suggest you start out with

a .22, and work up to very light loads (PF 100), and then work up slowly

to PF 125+. You really can't be flinching and shoot effectively.

BTW, I find shooting a 9mm or .40+ INDOORS to be flinch inducing -

that's where the .22 comes in, or shooting big bore OUTSIDE, if you can.

2. Accuracy needed depends on what you're planning on doing - what type

of shooting are you talking about? If you're going to shoot bullseye,

you'll need to keep the bullets in the black; for action shooting, you

can't separate out accuracy and speed - as mentioned, you want to

be able to shoot fairly large groups, but "at speed".

Some people are very fast, and never learned to be precise - others

start out learning to shoot precisely, and never learn to go fast.

Good luck.

Have you tried the Dot Torture Drill?

[mojo1]

at 7 yards you should be able to cover the group with the small end of a small dixie cup under 1 1/2" or better, stay on the front sight and practice and practice, something else if you want to work on accuracy try ball and dummy, its easier to do with a revolver, or bullseye and PPC, it teaches you trgger control and sight alignment, work on being smooth and your speed will come.

[vnboileau]

at 7 yards you should be able to cover the group with the small end of a small dixie cup under 1 1/2" or better, stay on the front sight and practice and practice, something else if you want to work on accuracy try ball and dummy...

Ok, that's sort of what I was wondering. If, at 5-7 yards, I'm shooting 6" groups, my fundamentals are probably breaking down.

And if I've got my stance, grip, front sight focus and trigger pull where they should be, I should be looking at 2-3" (or smaller) groups at 5-7 yards?

[motosapiens]

And if I've got my stance, grip, front sight focus and trigger pull where they should be, I should be looking at 2-3" (or smaller) groups at 5-7 yards?

2" at 7 yards is a reasonable standard for unhurried shooting. If you can't do that, work on fundamentals (mostly trigger control and lack of flinch) until you can.

[drewbeck]

You may also want to spend a fair amount of time dry firing groups at 7-10 yards it will show you a lot about your trigger pull that you may not be seeing with a boom involved.

In fact you can probably quit live fire until you know you can shoot a 1-2" group in dry fire. Once you know you can do that, go to the range and do the same, if the group is opening up YOU are changing something from dry fire. Yank, pull, flinch, push, whatever it may be, keep working dry and the groups will probably shrink. You will notice a huge improvement when your mind realizes this boom isn't going to be any bigger to harder than the last one and you quit anticipating it.

You can learn it with live or dry fire, the latter is free and available any time you want to learn.

An example of this, I took someone shooting for the first time this weekend. We started with a .22 after the first dozen mags he was shooting 2" at 7 yards. He wanted to move on to 9mm but I made him shoot a couple more mags. He asked why I wanted him to keep shooting the .22, I said so you know what you're capable of before you're groups open way up with the 9mm. He then shot the "broken" 9 and groups grew to 16" from the second shot on. He shot another mag with similar results and I said alright what are YOU doing differently? You know what it feels like now and it's not going to be any worse on the next one so just pull it like you were before. His groups immediately went to 3" and he continued to improve the rest of the day.

The key to accuracy is to learn to squeeze your trigger without disrupting your sights. The most efficient time to learn that skill is when the gun isn't going kaboom.

Just my opinion

Www.uplandsportsman.com

Introducing the Zero Interference Shotgun Sling, enjoy all day shotgun carrying comfort without a lighter gun.

[Hi-Power Jack]

+1. Drewbeck has some good ideas here - dry fire and .22 - solves the flinch problem.

[vnboileau]

Awesome, that's exactly what I was wanting to know. I'll put the 9mm away for a little while and work on my dry firing and 22lr at the range for a bit.

Although I have to say, having been to the range now at least a dozen times, I don't think I've seen anyone shooting 2" groups at 7 yards. Frankly, 6" groups at 7 yards would be about the best shooting I've seen. I've seen plenty of groups that look like shotgun patterning at 7-10 yards.

[TonytheTiger]

^ Yeah, that's because most people suck.

[pjirsa]

Removed

Edited February 20, 2015 by pjirsa

[drewbeck]

For an additional point of clarification. Groups are typically measured to the vented of the bore or bullet diameter. So a guy shooting .40 with a 2" group the outside to outside of the bullet holes would be 2" plus the outer two hands of the bullet diameter so it would measure 2.4". Splitting hairs but if you weren't aware of that it may clear it up some. So if someone shot two single hole groups with a .50 cal and next to it a .22 both groups would be "0" not .50" and .22"

Also far greater accuracy is more of the "norm" in this sport than what you have been exposed to, to date. Nothing to worry about it's just something to be aware of when comparing your progress to others locally. We all started where you are at

Www.uplandsportsman.com

Introducing the Zero Interference Shotgun Sling, enjoy all day shotgun carrying comfort without a lighter gun.

[Hi-Power Jack]

6" groups at 7 yards is the best shooting I've seen.

Really depends on the gun, ammo, sights, experience of the shooter,

and speed of firing.

Most decent shooters can shoot a 6" group at 21 yards, offhand, with

some speed ... but that's with a decent gun, sights, etc.

I just looked at my last targets from few days ago, and it looks like a

shotgun pattern. Because I was shooting at different parts of the target

rather than replacing the target every 5-6 shots.

You really should be aiming for a 2" group at 7 yards, and more importantly,

moving out to at least 10 - 12 yards, if not 15-18 yards, and looking for

3-4" groups.

But, it takes practice, and is impossible if you flinch.

[TDA]

You might pay a bit of attention to those others at the range shooting those shotgun blast targets at 7 yds. I always watch them for a minute, as there is something to learn there too.

I watch them close their eyes just as the trigger breaks, some just jerk the trigger back as fast as they can, others pull back on the pistol when pressing the trigger, others drop the muzzle when pressing the trigger, etc. All will tell you that the sight picture was perfect...

Watch them and then question yourself. Am I jerking the trigger like that? Did I close my eyes? Am I squeezing the grip as I press the trigger causing the muzzle to drop?

Then pay attention to what you are doing. Concentrate on the front sight and watch for the muzzle flash when it goes "bang" to verify you are not blinking or closing your eyes. Be aware of your finger slowly and smoothly pressing the trigger, etc. See what it is that they are doing wrong and the results of it, and then try to correct that in your own shooting.

It may help, or it may not!

[boatdoc173]

Hi

great ? I am a relatively new shooter--started 1 year ago

what have I learned--

1.never lose concentration

2.Obey(at the least) the 4 commandments of safety( keep finger off trigger until ready to shoot! all guns are loaded, never point gun at something unless you want to destroy it know your target and what is beyond)

3.be open minded and listen to those who are experienced( but with a grain of salt--pick and choose what works for you)

4.TRIGGER CONTROL is the key to accuracy-- stances, grips--vary --although solid consistent stances and grips are a foundation-- trigger control and extreme front sight focus-- will tighten your groups and make you SMILE!!!!!

happy shooting

ps I have gone from "happy to hit paper" after shooting the 1st time @ 10-15 feet (with 9mm glock and 1911 .22 cal) to very happy when I shoot 2" groups(with anything in my collection)--some ragged holes--now @ 7 yards--not bad for an old dog(56 years and never fired a gun until 2-15-14) -me so happy now :D

Edited February 21, 2015 by boatdoc173

[GrumpyOne]

Awesome, that's exactly what I was wanting to know. I'll put the 9mm away for a little while and work on my dry firing and 22lr at the range for a bit.

Although I have to say, having been to the range now at least a dozen times, I don't think I've seen anyone shooting 2" groups at 7 yards. Frankly, 6" groups at 7 yards would be about the best shooting I've seen. I've seen plenty of groups that look like shotgun patterning at 7-10 yards.

Most people go to the range to practice...problem is, they have no clue what they need to practice.

I've seen people walk out of the range after an hour and 100 rounds and be so proud to show off a target that looks like they have been shooting it at 50 yards with 00 Buck (when it was really shot at 7 yards with a 9mm). In my opinion, that's why the ranges sell those gigantic man silhouette targets so they (the general public) won't get discouraged when they shoot and at least hit something, and therefore come back to the range.

[GrumpyOne]

Hi

great ? I am a relatively new shooter--started 1 year ago

what have I learned--

1.never lose concentration

2.Obey(at the least) the 4 commandments of safety( keep finger off trigger until ready to shoot! all guns are loaded, never point gun at something unless you want to destroy it know your target and what is beyond)

3.be open minded and listen to those who are experienced( but with a grain of salt--pick and choose what works for you)

4.TRIGGER CONTROL is the key to accuracy-- stances, grips--vary --although solid consistent stances and grips are a foundation-- trigger control and extreme front sight focus-- will tighten your groups and make you SMILE!!!!!

happy shooting

ps I have gone from "happy to hit paper" after shooting the 1st time @ 10-15 feet (with 9mm glock and 1911 .22 cal) to very happy when I shoot 2" groups(with anything in my collection)--some ragged holes--now @ 7 yards--not bad for an old dog(56 years and never fired a gun until 2-15-14) -me so happy now :D

Awesome!

[motosapiens]

Although I have to say, having been to the range now at least a dozen times, I don't think I've seen anyone shooting 2" groups at 7 yards. Frankly, 6" groups at 7 yards would be about the best shooting I've seen. I've seen plenty of groups that look like shotgun patterning at 7-10 yards.

Have you been shooting at the range with B class uspsa shooters and up? Because most people who just plink for fun don't really practice accuracy, and pretty much suck at shooting. It doesn't take huge amounts of practice to pull the trigger smoothly and stop flinching/blinking, but it does take practice on specific things. Once you do that, 2" groups in slow fire won't be difficult and you'll start working on the same grouping under some time pressure.

[schrja]

^ Yeah, that's because most people suck.

A better way to say that is what I heard one shooter say to another when I watched my first IDPA match. "I am better than 99% of the shooters out there. The problem is the other 1% are all here tonight"

[TonytheTiger]

^ Yeah, that's because most people suck.

A better way to say that is what I heard one shooter say to another when I watched my first IDPA match. "I am better than 99% of the shooters out there. The problem is the other 1% are all here tonight"

That's a nifty quote, I'll have to stow that in my range bag and whip it out at the next opportune moment...

[vnboileau]

Have you been shooting at the range with B class uspsa shooters and up? Because most people who just plink for fun don't really practice accuracy, and pretty much suck at shooting. It doesn't take huge amounts of practice to pull the trigger smoothly and stop flinching/blinking, but it does take practice on specific things. Once you do that, 2" groups in slow fire won't be difficult and you'll start working on the same grouping under some time pressure.

I guess not. But I probably been to the range a dozen times, and taken two CHL classes, and have yet to see anyone who can shoot a 3" group at 7 yards.