fastlane604 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I tried searching this on this forum and on google and came up empty. I am curious to know how a 75 Shadow short dustcover compares to a 9mm 1911 in felt recoil. Since they weigh about the same and both have short dust covers I would think they would be very similar. However, I would like opinions from those of you who have shot both. Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbo76 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) I have owned and shot both. (Dan Wesson PM9, CZ Custom SP01) The 1911 hands down has less felt recoil. Both are soft shooting but my preference is the 1911. Edited December 29, 2014 by sbo76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondakilla98 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Isn't the cz slide lighter than most 1911 slides? So if they are similar in overall weight, both tuned with the proper recoil spring, and shooting the same ammo. Wouldn't the lighter slide feel like less recoil(assuming bore height is the same). Is bore height the same? Edited December 29, 2014 by hondakilla98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The 1911 in 9mm feels more muzzle heavy but the CZ 75 certainly has less muzzle flip (the bore is lower). They are both fun to shoot but the CZ seems to be quicker for me and experiences fewer malfunctions for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Here's a picture of a Tanfoglio Limited superimposed on a 1911: You can see the big difference is the position of the beaver tail. Because the slide in frame design uses a shorter slide, you can grip the gun higher, getting the bore axis closer to your wrist. Short dust cover CZ vs 9mm 1911? I've never shot a 9mm 1911, but I would guess it shoots softer due purely to extra half inch of length and recoil system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewer00psd Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Cool picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Nifty picture indeed. Now I can start making fun of the high bore axis on 1911's the way people do with Sig's! I've shot both types of guns a good amount, and my verdict is that whichever gun you have the most time on is going to behave in your hands like it has less recoil. For me that's the CZ, for my 9mm 1911 buddy it's just the opposite. Pistol recoil in 9mm guns is extremely subjective and it has a lot more to do with your particular hands and the way you grip the gun. If you where to put the two guns on a machine to measure the ft-lbs of recoil force I imagine it would be quite similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I am curious to know how a 75 Shadow short dustcover compares to a 9mm 1911 in felt recoil. Since they weigh about the same and both have short dust covers I would think they would be very similar. They weigh about the same? that is news to me. My 1911 is several oz heavier than my 75b (in 40, so it has the beefier slide). Neither one recoils enough to call it 'recoil' if you have a decent grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I think in terms of pure felt recoil a heavy slide can feel like it has less because the impulse is spread out a little longer due to the lower slide velocity. I know with the same bullet at the same power factor my full profile 1911 has a softer almost lazy feel compared to my Tanfoglios, I also run faster spits with the 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'm quite interested to see where this topic leads. Personally, I plan to build / purchase some form of a double stack 9mm in 2015 with CZ/Tanf/2011 being my primary options. Since I don't own any of the 3 they would all me a new platform to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Theory and reality are often two different things. Best advice to answer this sort of question would be to try both. I have a 75 pre B, a G17, and have shot 1911/2011s at minor power factor as well. Of all of these the 75 has what I would describe as the most felt recoil, despite the G17 being considerably lighter. In fact, I've shot short dust cover, tri topped, bushing barrel 2011s that weigh 34 oz that feel softer and have less muzzle rise in my hands than the CZ. Now if we are talking about a full dust cover shadow, that reverses the scenario but having a big chunk of steel hanging off the end of the frame should do that. The 75 does lift and return well, and in 9mm at major power factor recoil just isn't that much of an issue. I didn't come over here to make fun of CZs, as I have one, and hope I can make it work for me. That is just my experience, since OP is asking for the opinion of those who have shot both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 My go to production gun is a CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow (long dust cover). I also have a CZ 75 Shadow (short dust cover). This past weekend, I shot my SA Range Officer in 9mm using the same ammo as I use in the CZs. The SDC Shadow has slightly more flip than the LDC, no much, but enough to fell the difference. The 1911 feels like a .22 in comparison. My squad mates noted that the gun ran very flat and hardly seemed to recoil. It actually felt very slow to me, but it was really fun! Will try to get a video this weekend. Lester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Lester, I'd be interested in quantifying some of this stuff. The 1911 is a large frame, so it has a longer stroke than the small frame CZs but I'm not sure how the stroke of a large frame Tanfo compares to a 1911. I think the 5" recoil system vs the 4.5" recoil system in the CZs is a big factor too. It has always interested me that the 40 TS (5.1" barrel) has a reduced recoil system. A lot of 6" 2011 builds also use a recoil system shorter than 6"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Lester, I'd be interested in quantifying some of this stuff. The 1911 is a large frame, so it has a longer stroke than the small frame CZs but I'm not sure how the stroke of a large frame Tanfo compares to a 1911. I think the 5" recoil system vs the 4.5" recoil system in the CZs is a big factor too. It has always interested me that the 40 TS (5.1" barrel) has a reduced recoil system. A lot of 6" 2011 builds also use a recoil system shorter than 6"... I think the biggest reason for a 5" recoil system in a 6" gun is availability of springs. I have a 6" Para 9mm, 5" springs react differently. I run a 15# 5" spring in it with a shock buff. It feels to me like running a 12# 6" spring. (Totally subjective, it is what I had on hand and ran with it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Very interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Lester, I'd be interested in quantifying some of this stuff. The 1911 is a large frame, so it has a longer stroke than the small frame CZs but I'm not sure how the stroke of a large frame Tanfo compares to a 1911. I think the 5" recoil system vs the 4.5" recoil system in the CZs is a big factor too. It has always interested me that the 40 TS (5.1" barrel) has a reduced recoil system. A lot of 6" 2011 builds also use a recoil system shorter than 6"... I'm game! How would we measure/ quantify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 They're pretty similar, I just shot my 9mm ts back to back with full rail ria 9mm 5" with same loads and they were very close if I had to give an edge it would be the 1911 having slightly less felt recoil, I do however like the cz better all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Lester, I'd be interested in quantifying some of this stuff. The 1911 is a large frame, so it has a longer stroke than the small frame CZs but I'm not sure how the stroke of a large frame Tanfo compares to a 1911. I think the 5" recoil system vs the 4.5" recoil system in the CZs is a big factor too. It has always interested me that the 40 TS (5.1" barrel) has a reduced recoil system. A lot of 6" 2011 builds also use a recoil system shorter than 6"... I'm game! How would we measure/ quantify? My 60 fps camera isn't going to do it- what does the iphone do- 240? That, and a checkerboard, should be enlightening. Maybe one day I will buy something like one of the fast Casio EX cameras... just can't justify it yet. Quantifying it is great- and I am all for that- but the anecdotal approach of shoot one, then shoot the other- should tell quite a bit. At a recent session at Rainbow I shot my 75, and Bart's caspian SS back to back- and the caspian made me laugh, it was so soft. Running minor 40 through Candace's 2011 is similarly so soft, it is almost unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endall Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I shoot my 9mm 1911, CZ-75B Stainless, Shadow SA, and Witness Match 9mm with the same ammo. The Match has the least felt recoil. The 1911 feels a little softer than the Shadow, very close. The 75B feels snappy in comparison. The P-01 actually seems softer than the 75B. It may be my changing of the recoil spring in the 75B. Factory replaced with 1/2 pound stronger. I do not shoot reduced power loads. Compared to the 45's and 10mm, the 9's all are less recoil. I can feel the effect of putting 250 rounds of 45 that evening. Wrist is a little stiff and sometime web between thumb and index is a ground up. Running through 250 rounds of full power 9 does nothing. I never shoot more than 100 rounds of 10mm in an outing. That feels like twice as many 45's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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