TonytheTiger Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 So I bought a 9mm TS off a forum member a while ago. It had an estimated round count of 3000 so it was definitely broke in and the previous owner reported perfect function of the gun. When I first started shooting it I had recurring failures to go fully into battery without any obvious causes. I lurked around here researching what to do but never got around to purchasing any extra power mag springs or other recommend parts. In the meantime I just kept shooting it and around my 1k round mark the problem completely disappeared and has seemed cured for the last 1k rounds. Now today I let another guy shoot it and it happened to him twice in 50 rounds. I pick it up and shoot another 100 with no problems. So my question is, is it possible that I was slightly limp writing while getting familiar with my new toy or that the gun/springs aren't really tuned for nothing but low PF 115 grain ammo, or of course a combination of the two? Is this a common TS quirk? Like I said, it doesn't happen to me anymore and I'm not terribly worried about it but I can't help but wonder if a lighter recoil spring would minimize the possibility of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You are cycling a lot of slide for low PF 115... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) That's not surprising to hear. Maybe I shouldn't really say low PF, in the 125-130 range, so average for factory ammo but it's certainly not 9mm major ammo. Would say a 13lb spring be more in line with that kind of diet? Edited December 14, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Tony, I shoot a 13lb spring in my 40TS and it works for PFs between 135 and 166. I will say that at 135 the only mags that lock the slide back after the last shot are those that use the stock followers. The CZC units do not. So I think the slide is not travelling quite far enough back at 135. If you are using a heavier spring, that is the first thing I would change. You may also have a problem with Glocked brass. That is a bigger problem in 9mm than 40. The only times my TS will not chamber a round is with Glocked brass. Almost always, if I put the round back in the mag it will chamber. The next time you have the problem, try rotating the round and reinsert in the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Glocked brass is a bigger problem in 9mm than 40? That's news to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My guess is that the original recoil spring has about 5K rounds and needs to be replaced. I recall 9mm recoil spring is 11lbs in the TS, but do a quick search on here to confirm. I think CZ USA is a little vague on their descriptions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 @zzt- I should've mentioned that I have all stock followers and when I was having the failure to go into battery problem I was also having occasional failures to slide lock. Those problems also disappeared at the same time. And I'm shooting all factory ammo so I shouldn't be running any goofy brass. I never tried rotating or messing with the round in question because every time it happened I could either give a firm tap to the back of the slide and it would chamber, or I would pull back just slightly on slide and the round would pop up parallel with the bore and jump right in there with no effort. That reminds me, the cartridge was always at a kinda funny angle, the bullet point seemed to be binding on the top of the chamber and the rim always seemed to be on the verge of dropping under the slide. Kinda makes me wanna intentionally cause a malfunction so I can study it closer, I was usually in a hurry to clear it and keep shooting so I never took the time to look real close. @IronicTwitch- It does indeed have 5000 rounds through it and I've been watching the maintenance thread on the forum thinking it may be time to do a little preventative parts swapping. However the problem was prevalent for me between 3-4000 rounds and has gone away between 4-5000 rounds. Now it just show's up pretty regularly when other people shoot it. I still want to throw some parts at it to eliminate some possibilities, someday I'll figure out what the factory spring weight is, there's a lot of conflicting numbers everywhere I look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Tony, call CZC and ask Stuart. When I ordered my TS 40 I also ordered extra parts. I told Stuart what I'd be shooting and he recommended the full power 14lb spring for full bore factory loads, the 13 for Major loads and the 11 for Minor. The 13 lb spring works fine with all loads down to 140PF. At 135 the brass just dribbles out, but it does feed and slide lock. So I think you are definitely over sprung. I'm about to try the 11, which I was told was the standard spring for the TS 9mm. Edited December 15, 2014 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 What type of ammo are you using?(what Bullet wight, how many fps) What is the PF of the ammo you are using? How far does the brass fall? If it is flying 6-8 ft your spring is good. If it is flying 2-4 ft your spring is to strong, If it is flying 9-12 or more ft your spring is soft. the other thing to look at is the OAL of your ammo, some guns just don't like some OAL's. Try shorter &/or longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 When trying longer ammo, make sure your bullet isn't hitting the barrel rifling. Pull your barrel and press your round into the barrel hard, and make sure it still turns easily. If the round doesn't turn freely in the barrel or gets stuck in the barrel, then you need to shorten up your OAL. Different bullet profiles can need different OAL. Just because one profile round is fine at 1.135 OAL, doesn't mean all profiles can be loaded at 1.135. An OAL too long could cause the gun to not go full into battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) While I appreciate the suggestions, I don't think it's an OAL related issue. I'll do a quick summary of the issue: all 115 grain factory ammo, wide variety of bullet profiles, all pass plunk test with no rifling contact, issue happened to me before I refined and tightened up my grip pressure considerably, went away after, brass in a consistent 7-9' away from the gun at 3 o'clock, when it does fail to chamber it's a good 1/2" from closed, and most importantly the issue now only happens to other shooters who I suspect are limp wristing at least a little, which leads me to think it's somehow a grip pressure vs. lighter bullet vs. spring weight issue. Edited December 15, 2014 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Tony, I agree your recoil spring is likely too heavy for shooters in question with the loads you're talking about, but the hammer spring also plays a role in the cycle of the slide, if your gun has the factory spring in it it's ~18#. A lighter spring there would also help cycle light loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdave24 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I found that too light a recoil spring led to failures to go into battery. There didn't seem to be enough 'oomph' to get the bullet to chamber completely. YMMV. This was with a 10 or 11 pound spring with .40 minor loads. A 13 lb spring cured the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I agree with "bigdave24". I was having failure to go to into battery with an 11lb recoil spring with 9mm minor. I went to a 13lb recoil spring last year, and have not had one since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SufferInSilence Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I run a 13# in mine and run all my brass through the EGW / Lee "U" Die. Also, make sure you aren't using the recoil buffer, they jam things up unless you shave em' down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well I decided since there's no definitive answer here that I'm just going to end up ordering 10#,11# and 13# recoil springs, probably a 15# hammer spring if that will work with most primers and some extra power mag springs then just play the mix and match game with the recoil springs till it runs 100%. I shot 50 rounds indoors yesterday with no problems, shot 100 today outside in 30 degree weather and had two failures despite my extra manly grip. I was using the same mags and ammo, the only difference I can think of was temperature, and I've seen springs in non firearm applications do weird stuff with temp changes so it doesn't sound far fetched to me that it could be a culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I have 3 Tactical Sports, and they like to be run wet. I had several jams with 40 major, and 9mm minor, then started to run plenty of oil on slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 You got me there, during all my trial and error I have yet to keep track of my TS's lube and coolant levels. I'll take that under advisement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsauerfan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 what,the jams went away with some extra lube as solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) yes, extra lube did help eliminate jams....even with low coolant levels.... Edited December 20, 2014 by ohsevenflhx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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