waktasz Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 With what I've heard of open being able to really help improve your other shooting I really wanted to give it a shot, which is the purpose behind the question. My limited gun is still fairly new so I'm not able to go full into open but I really want to give it a shot. I really appreciate all your suggestions though. I still have a lot to consider. Thanks much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 It sounds like you going open.... Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 It sounds like you going open.... Resistance is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crovello Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 When I first started shooting in 96 I only had a Colt1911. Put a comp on it and a C-more, stuck 6 10 round mags on my belt and off I went. I did not come in first place but I sure did not come in last. I learned to reload at the best time and do it fast. I had just as much fun as anyone else. It seems that many shooters on this forum are Master shooters or better. At that level you cannot compromise your equipment. For some who only shoot a few local matches it is more about improving your own skill. Eventually you will want to compete with better shooters and at that point you will have to make the investment in the correct equipment. point to all this,,you do not have to win to have fun and sharpen your skills. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 corvello If you are not trying to win....why are you going.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I agree a full blown .355 open gun with 29 rd mags is the "best" option if money weren't an option. From a learning perspective, Open is all about the dot. Sure, 29 rds mags & a comp are nice. But, the dot is the most important thing when it comes to what you will learn. The least expensive option I can think of is to have your frame drilled & tapped for a C-more serendipity. Buy one 170mm mag with Grams spring/follower. That'll get you started. Save the rest of the money to put into a real open gun later. You can probably move the C-more to the new gun. I'm sure Tightloop will say I'm wrong, but I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 --- snip ---It seems that many shooters on this forum are Master shooters or better. At that level you cannot compromise your equipment. --- snip --- I know it's only one data point but Beven Grams made master with a .40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crovello Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 tightloop I do want to win but when I started I just wanted to improve my skills. I knew I was not going to win being a new shooter. I still tried hard and learned a lot. Not to mention I had great fun doing it. It seems to me you discourage new shooters when you tell them buy the best or don't bother competing. Personally I try to encourage new shooter. As long as you are shooting safe and enjoying yourself, jump right in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 But why not go for modified division. Set up your P16-40 for modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 I'm in US Crovello I appreciate what you're saying. That's exactly how I'm feeling right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I might have to jump in here before long and share how cheap it is to convert a 9mm Glock to shoot Open. (I'm going to go ahead and make Grand Master with mine. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 that 29 round mag doesnt help when the COF is 32 rounds. especially when there is considerable movement between arrays. the only time thats really gonna be an advantage is if there is a bunch of steel AND you cant shoot worth a crap and need 29 rounds to take down 8 steel if you can get 25 rounds, and its reliable, your good to go and you can laugh at all those guys who told you it wouldnt be that good when there bending over picking up all that expensive 38super brass. a 40 caliber para open gun would only be limited by how many rounds the 170mm mag holds. with a 140 mm mag, the para should hold at least 20 rounds. on a 32 round COF, shoot two arrays (if the course is designed correctly 16 rounds) reload and shoot two more arrays... Or with the 38 super, shoot 3 arrays, reload and shoot 1 array. 40 caliber in open division can be done, and be competitive. that grams guy ran one all the way to master, then switched to major 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 <snip>From a learning perspective, Open is all about the dot. Sure, 29 rds mags & a comp are nice. But, the dot is the most important thing when it comes to what you will learn. <snip> Why is the dot the most informative part of learning? I don't think it's the most critical difference between open and limited (comp is...I'll trade a dot for a comp any day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 tightloopI do want to win but when I started I just wanted to improve my skills. I knew I was not going to win being a new shooter. I still tried hard and learned a lot. Not to mention I had great fun doing it. It seems to me you discourage new shooters when you tell them buy the best or don't bother competing. Personally I try to encourage new shooter. As long as you are shooting safe and enjoying yourself, jump right in! There are some valid points for each side of this - But. If you actually compete for any length of time MOST will end up buying a 38 something set up. And when this happens the money you spent on a compromise (while saving a few $$$) will be mostly wasted. Buy the good stuff - Buy once. Compromise and you will buy twice. Buying the right stuff the second time is a poor way to save money. There are other ways to go about doing the Open thing but only a few people are successful at really being competitive with something that is not a specialized, purpose built Open rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Why is the dot the most informative part of learning? It's a vision thing. The difference between focusing continuously (mostly) on the target plane rather than alternately (usually) on the target plane-to-front sight plane. Becoming comfortable with focusing on "infinity" takes time (unless you are a natural). It doesn't matter what's under the dot at that point. The comp only allows faster return of the sight which affects your "visual patience." This is applicable to both sights. Open glock sounds awesome. Although, one of the critical things about "finding the dot" is index. Learning to shoot using the force with the glock will take adjustment if a 2011 frame is later used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 There is really no market for a Open Para .40 There is for a 38 Super so when you are not poor you won't be able to sell it. The fact there is no market should make your decision easy. Now if there are compelling reasons like, I get free .40 ammo then that's a good reason to make a .40 Open gun. Win a couple Area's and you almost have your STI I'll take a dot any day. A comp give a few hundreths faster splits. The dot allows much more speed with accuracy on difficult targets. I have never tried it but I know I could shoot a compless Cmore gun pretty well. I don't think you need to buy a $4000 Open gun but $1500-2000 is probably the least to get in, except for those Glocks. I can't remember anybody winning a lot with a open Glock but it is the shooter, always. S_I's just last longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askomiko Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Tanfolgio Gold Customs are on sale here in Finland, $1000... Open might be fun, I wanna try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 There was a pretty good discussion of this on Max's site a while back. http://www.maxmichel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81 I think it simplifies things. I think it helps you better learn to call your shots. One other added benefit is that after you get annoyed with losing the dot all the time, you learn to develop your index. What do you learn from a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 There was a pretty good discussion of this on Max's site a while back.http://www.maxmichel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81 I think it simplifies things. I think it helps you better learn to call your shots. One other added benefit is that after you get annoyed with losing the dot all the time, you learn to develop your index. What do you learn from a comp? Oh, I wasn't supposing that I learned anything from a comp, just that I thought it gave a greater competitive edge than a dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Tanfolgio Gold Customs are on sale here in Finland, $1000... Open might be fun, I wanna try. I meant a real Open gun (JOKE) I might consider that with the lower Power factor but I am old school. I NEVER saw a P9 CZ or what ever, run every match. They broke like eggshells. That's why they sell for $600 with mags, if the seller can get it, and nobody but EG uses them. That fact might be changing and is a good thing. They have great grips. I hope they would work out for you but as I said, You still need to practice. That's where mucho rds are shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 After shooting an aimpointed 38super in open for the last 6 months, I gotta agree with ShortRound and storm on this one. The ease of indexing and the ability to shoot with both eyes open and focused on the targets throughout the whole course of fire is a major advantage more so than the relative lack of muzzle rise. I have never been able to keep both eyes open when using iron sights but with the dot, it is completely natural. Because of this, shooting open for me is a completely different, and dare I say superior, experience to shooting IPSC with iron sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Johnson Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I'm a relatively new C open shooter. The courses I find most difficult are the ones where I don't have to reload my big stick. If I know due to the round count I must reload I can do it anywhere during the course, but if the round count is near my magazine capacity my fudge factor becomes really small. A marginal hit on steel and the need to make-up a D and there goes the stage. I'm starting to finish in the middle of the pack with the B and some A shooters now. For the larger courses if I lost .75 a second to reload my scores would then take quite a plunge. If your doing this for fun then by all means have at it. Just a thought, but aren't .40 bullets more expensive than .356? I personally would only be interested in the opinions of A-M-GM class Open Shooters. I guess that means you can disregard my entire post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Crovello Not trying to dissuade you or anyone else from doing it like you want to do it....just trying to remind you, as Merlin did, that if you want to do really well, it saves you money and time to just get the right stuff up front and then learn how to shoot it...it is inefficient to get on one platform and then change to another after you decide you like the Division... It is just my personal opinion, but my daddy told me to get the best you could afford and never look back..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdgun Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 It is just my personal opinion, but my daddy told me to get the best you could afford and never look back..... Listen to what was just said, and the magic words are ("best you can afford") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Not wanting to sound like a used gun salesman......But, if you're interested, I just sold a .38 Super to a friend of mine who's going to put his Para Open-40 on the market. A smokin' deal for about a grand with 6 mags. Let me know if I can help, Bruno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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