waktasz Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Being the poor, recently out of college guy that I am, and wanting to shoot open every now and then, I was thinking about having a barrel and comp fitted on my Para 16.40 and having it drilled and tapped for a scope mount. Is this even possible? and am I wierd for wanting to do it? I know I'll lose some capacity to the 38supers, etc, but unless there is a stage where there is 27 shots in a row from the same position I think I could get by with a few extra reloads on the move. At least it will make me practice my loads more What do you think? Is it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 In Open, it is all about the number of rounds.....Having a big stick definately works in your favor...if you are going to shoot Open, get an Open gun if you want to win.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 It'd be nice to win but I kind of just want to play. Get some practice in with the dot but I will be concentrating on Limited. I figure about $250 for the barrel, 275 for comp, 100 for sight mount and 250 for optics + labor. That's about 1000 to play in open instead of $2500. It ain't cheap but it is less than half of what I'd have to drop on a full gun. If I could snag a used open gun for $1500 I'd be in heaven but the classifieds don't turn up many of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 My first open gun was a p16-40 converted to an open gun. It even used the factory barrel. All you should really need unless you simply want to change barrel is a cone comp. Mine used an EGW 7 port comp and had 2 ports in the barrel. it was one of the best shooting open guns I've ever shot. I would go with the serendipity style C-more, no need to buy a mount. Give George at EGW a call and see what he can do for you about fitting a comp and lightening the the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 waktasz, i think you'd be better off buying a used open gun. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Echo what Lynn said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 I am thinking about doing the same thing with my 1640 as a backup gun. More often than not, if there is a 28 round COF, there will be a place to reload without loosing time. Plus .40 brass is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 I'm with Lynn, and it's not just because he sends me Hallmark Valentine cards. Others have pondered the same situation here in the forums, but I'm not sure what search terms to use. I'd rather have a dogged-out .38 Super Open gun than a spanking-new .40 compromise gun. And what are you going to do to shoot Limited? Sure you can swap barrels and remove the optic and mount, but are you going to put the iron sights back on and re-zero them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crovello Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I have a p16-40 and am thinking of doing the same thing. I have different reasons though. I unfortunately live in the peoples republic of Massachusetts. The AG has decided that some guns are not "safe". Anything with high capacity for one. Glocks are a no no. You cannot even buy a Colt 1911. Fortunately I have all these guns already, but I do not have a 38 super. The only way to get one is to buy one that was in state prior to 1998. Needless to say you do not see many for sale. Therefore having my p16 converted may be my best option. I know I will never be at my best with it but it shoots well and I can have fun. I can jamb 20 rounds into my mags with the Dawson base pads I put on them. Learn to reload fast and I am on my way. And besides, if on the off chance I beat someone with an STI, It will really burn their a**. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Waktasz, No, you're not wierd. Do what you like. I personally think you're right not to worry about mag capacity. I've been doing it for years with an open CZ. Just have fun. And, since you brought it up, here's a recent post from the gallery with some pictures of another forum member's open .40. -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 BTDT, and it's a heartbreaking setup. I'm joining the choir singing the song entitled Get another gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hrm I didn't realize the iron sights wouldn't sit under the mount. Sounds like a problem. Here's praying for a huge tax return this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I went the same route and turned a 40 limited to a 40 open but did it a little differently. I have a complete topend built so I'll I do is switch the topends and take the sight off. It saved me alot of money that way. I'm saving up now to get a new bottom end built. So I'll have 2 guns. Bottom line is money, I got started with a 40 limited, the next yr I had a topend built so I could go back and forth. Because of work I had to quit shooting for the last 4 yrs. I had to work weekends so I could never make a match. Now I'm back to weekends off and planniing on having the other bottom end made at the end of this yr. I get what I can as I can afford it. Family comes first, my toys second. I have no doubt I will get a 38 super or something along that line. Right now especially jsut getting back into shooting I'm not at a level where a 38 super will make a difference for me. I shoot mostly local matches. Maybe in a couple yrs I'll change over. I recommend buying a used 38 super but if you can't afford make due with what you got. Check out the USPSA website classifieds, there are plenty of used gun still for sale at that site. You have to be a member though to access it. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Heres the setup http://uploads.fakeleg.com/perm/IMG_0323.JPG Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I gotta agree with everyone else who suggested that you purchase a used 38super open gun. Capacity makes a huge difference in open division. A 40 setup is definitely a compromise and how long will that keep your interest? When you do finally break down and buy a 38super setup, you now have a boat anchor that very few will be interested in buying and of course you are also out a decent limited gun as well. Doesn't sound like a good investment. The brass cost for the super is really not a big deal. After 10 months, my wife and I are still working off our original 3000 starline supercomp cases and we both shoot at least 3 local matches a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Anything with a dot is better than something with not. There is so much to learn visually and sooner is better than later. Learn today and compete tomorrow if that is what finance dictates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I'm going to go against the grain and say convert. That said, I think your barrel and comp prices are way high. Heck, Brownells has the STI S-2 .40 comp and barrel for $315. Nowlin has kits retailing from $340-430. EGW has comps alone for $150. If you can do some minor fitting, the kits would probably be best. Also, since these are full retail prices, if you shop around or have a buddy with an FFL, you should be able to get stuff cheaper. Your optics price is about right, unless you get a good deal used. If you're resourceful, I'd guess you can pull the conversion off for under $650, and maybe less, depending on how lucky you are on finding deals. Assuming this is a short term solution just to get your feet wet in open, I'd say this would be the cheapest route you could go. That said, if you're going to get serious about Open, you'd be best off buying a serious set up; buying a ragged out .38 Super for $1300 or so and then spending another $200 on mags just doesn't seem right. [shameless plug] Or, there's a nifty tricked out EAA Witness for sale with Open and Limited top ends in the classified section. [/shameless plug] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 To have a dot good You can spend more later days Follow your spirit’s path (It is totally not easy to do Haiku at 0500! ) Check this out: Chux ex-P-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdgun Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I have to go against most as well. I have a Caspian 40 that goes both ways. My open top end on the same platform as a Modified gun. 6 port hybrid barrel with an optima mounted. Just change tops. Never loose zero,same mags, same grip. Just get yourself a big stick (24 rounds in mine) and your good to go.Here is my modified gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 check this out: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...topic=20666&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 hdgun I don't care how good a time you have, if you are shooting a 30 round field course and you have to reload and the other guys don't....you will finish last assuming equal hits...just name of the game... OPEN is not the place to have a compromise pistol....it takes very specialized stuff to do well in that division.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Waktasz, As someone who shot a .40 in open for 13 years, I do believe the gun will work in the open division. While it is true if you are standing head to head with no movement and the course of fire requires 29 rounds and your gun only holds 28 you will more than likely be beat by a gun that holds 30 rounds. But this type of a course of fire is illegal in USPSA/IPSC. If you decide to go with that setup you will approach courses of fire differently than a shooter with a super. But you can make it work. I never felt that I could not compete with the .38 Supers and I would routinely finish in the top 10 at local matches. I did retire my .40 last year and moved to a 9mm Major. The only driving reason that I did this was the reduction of the Power factor in USPSA/IPSC. If the power factor had stayed at 175 I would have stayed with the .40. Since going to the 9mm I have not seen a major difference in my competitive results. Just remember that it is the Indian and not the arrow. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 9MAJOR Caspian Not trying to be argumentative, but it depends on what you are trying to accomplish in Open ...if you want to shoot and have a good time on a very limited budget, it is certainly an option....but it is my belief that Open is not for those trying to save pennies....that might be production, because as Flex says, his gun did not require financing..... Open is where there are few rules with regard to gun, ammo capacity, etc...and certainly the more you can stuff into the mag the better off you are... However, all this is just my opinion and we all shoot to have fun, so if it makes you happy, go for it...trigger time is trigger time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdgun Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Tightloop, I was mearly pointing out the fact that it could be done and be competetive. You might not finish top of class but you will not finish bottom either. In a field course there are always opertune to places for a reload. I agree in a stand in one spot and fire 30 round course,you will have a problem.In seven years of shooting this game I have never seen such a stage. For someone on a budget or legaly can't obtain a new blaster or used,I think this is a great option. BTW i do shoot a 38 super as well,I build my modified gun for fun. MHO John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Here is an option: forget about drilling the frame for a "dot" & just run another top end in 9mm major that has the J-Point mounted on the slide. - You have little money due to recent graduation from college? 9mmMajor is the least expensive to run of the popular open .355s (9Supercomp, .38 Super, .38 Spercomp, 9x23Winchester, .38TJ, .38 Lapua, etc)..40 & 9mm run the same ejector IF you do not have to worry about clearing a scope mount on ejection. Downside to this plan over your original plan is: extra cost of slide & magazines. .40 open = same slide & mags; 9mm = not interchangeable. Upside is: same capacity as other .355s & you save $$$ on a frame mount & different ejector. Shoot Limited in the AM & just switch top ends to shoot open in the afternoon squad. You also suggested $1500 for a used open gun. Why go used? A brand new CZ Champion 9x19 is about $1200 (from autionsites) Both Angus & Mike Eagleshield (CZ-USA's gunsmith) have commented about running the Champion with NEW 9Major (powerfactor for open has been lowered to 165 now); the gun can take it. A lot of time has passed since it was popular to shoot open with the old Tanfoglio P9 (the guns Springfield armory bought from Tanfolio prior to 1994). Those guns had to endure 175 to 180 powerfactor 9mm & later had to all shoot 9x21. They did this with old double based powders available at the time. Since then, we have lower PF, better powder, safe 9Major loads & the CZ is an exceptionaly high quality gun. Its something to consider. You will still have to find a mount & buy a C-more or an OKO, but it should be very competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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