Question for international practical shooters.

[papan]

Questions for international practical shooters.

1. What that is the reason we have to separate USPSA apart from IPSC?

2. As we know that some Rules are different, then, why IPSC is still accepted USPSA as a Region?

3. Why countries or country zone or in the continental level don’t have their own Practical Shooting handling by themselves and are accepted same as USPSA?

Remark; About Nils case. As details are showing in this link> http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=177767&page=3, It is a big failure which showing the weakness of IPSC Rules. And, IPSC Regulator should resign instead of argue about what they have sacrificed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by papan

[remoandiris]

Exactly what are you trolling for?

[teros135]

Attention?

[papan]

I would like to know your point of standing about those my 3 questions. And, I just want to know your opinion; what it should be, and what the direction of IPSC to go. Please answer ,Thank you.

[elguapo]

1. Because 'merica

2. Because 'merica

3. Don't know, don't care

[Onagoth]

Questions for international practical shooters.

1. What that is the reason we have to separate USPSA apart from IPSC?

2. As we know that some Rules are different, then, why IPSC is still accepted USPSA as a Region?

3. Why countries or country zone or in the continental level don’t have their own Practical Shooting handling by themselves and are accepted same as USPSA?

Remark; About Nils case. As details are showing in this link> http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=177767&page=3, It is a big failure which showing the weakness of IPSC Rules. And, IPSC Regulator should resign instead of argue about what they have sacrificed.

These are the answers as far as I know.

1..USPSA broke away from IPSC because of all the BS.

2. USPSA is still a region of IPSC because IPSC realized how big of a region they are and didn't want to lose them (basically folding like a lawn chair). Perhaps so that IPSC can still say USPSA is a part of them....even though they have their own rule book, classifiers, and match administration. I think other things are separate as well like NROI, region fees, etc.

3. because no other IPSC regions are as large as the US (to my knowledge anyways)

Basically, if USPSA had truly broken away from IPSC, you might have seen IPSC lose a lot of legitimacy and countries may begin joining USPSA instead of IPSC. Better off to give the region what they want rather than compete with them

Edited October 29, 2014 by Onagoth

[38supPat]

USPSA didn't "break away" it is still an IPSC region, IPSC and USPSA agreed to disagree on the rules....

[euxx]

Yeah, it is the biggest IPSC region that doesn't run IPSC matches.

[remoandiris]

Yeah, it is the biggest IPSC region that doesn't run IPSC matches.

Sure we do!! Just had the US IPSC Nats a week ago. We just run more USPSA matches than IPSC matches.

[terrydoc]

And a really big one the week before that

[38supPat]

Or is USPSA the only one holding IPSC matches and IPSC doesn't anymore....hmmmmmmm

[euxx]

And a really big one the week before that

Except it wasn't exactly been run by USPSA.

RM and most match officials were not from US, as if IPSC people don't trust US officials to officiate IPSC matches... Oh, wait, there is not enough certified IPSC ROs in US.

Or is USPSA the only one holding IPSC matches and IPSC doesn't anymore....hmmmmmmm

Pat, when USPSA made decision to split off from IPSC with it's own rule book, it was a conscious decision to strongly encourage, favor and support USPSA matches instead of the IPSC ones. There is nothing wrong with that, but from that point, whatever you call them, they are not IPSC matches anymore... But hey, if it makes you feel better you can still call them IPSC, as long as you won't forget to use the right gauge to measure your Open magazine length.

[Gary Stevens]

IPSC was formed around the idea of a confederation. Each member would be able to work within their own situation.

We reached an agreement with IPSC that any matches ran in the U.S. that called themselves IPSC matches would be ran strictly under IPSC rules. We had two such matches in Michigan and Ohio when I was AD.

IPSC agreed that all matches that called themselves USPSA matches would be ran under the USPSA rule book.

Part of out reasoning was we did nit want to dilute the sport with such things as Air Soft. Opening that door might give a political entity an opportunity to say that we did not really need guns as we had demonstrated that we could use Air Soft instead.

Another issue was rule stability. IPSC was constantly changing their rule book yearly and we wanted a more stable rule environment.

This agreement was a win-win for all involved. I would note that in the ensuing years it has operated very well.

Gary

Edited October 31, 2014 by Gary Stevens

[beltjones]

It's all detailed quite thoroughly in old Front Sight editions, IPSC meeting minutes, and USPSA BOD meeting minutes.

[Chuck Anderson]

Another issue was rule stability. IPSC was constantly changing their rule book yearly and we wanted a more stable rule environment

I actually thought the opposite. That USPSA wanted to be able to modify rules more often. Can't think of a year that has gone by since the change where we didn't have multiple rules changed each year. Seemed like every BoD meeting something was changed.

[Gary Stevens]

That was as I remembered it. IPSC starts a new conversation each year of proposed rule changes.

Until we issued the new rule book and since then haven't the handgun rules remained fairly constant?

Equipment rules can only be change every two years, if I remember correctly.

[BoyGlock]

Afaik IPSC rules changes can only be made every three years when the Gen. Assembly approve them during a World Shoot.

[ChuckS]

Afaik IPSC rules changes can only be made every three years when the Gen. Assembly approve them during a World Shoot.

From the Jan 12 IPSC Constitution

13. Rules

The International Practical Shooting Rules referred to in this Constitution and adopted by

the Assembly shall be applied by the Confederation, its affiliates and members. The said

Rules shall be capable of being amended by a majority vote at the Assembly, and such

amendments shall come into effect on the first of January immediately following the

Assembly. With effect from the first of January 1997, said Rules shall only be capable of

being amended at an Assembly held in conjunction with a Handgun World

Championship. Proposed rule amendments at a non-Handgun World Championship

Assembly require a two-thirds majority vote in favor of discussing the amendments prior

to the discussion and subsequent vote on the amendments taken place.

From the 2013 USPSA Bylaws:

16.2 Competition Equipment Rules Modifications:

Changes to U.S. Division rules affecting personal competition equipment shall be adopted for a specific

Division no more frequently than every two years except as may be required to comply with federal laws.

Those changes must be published in the corporate newsletter three months prior to effective date.

[Chuck Anderson]

Equipment rules every two years. Everything else is fair game though.

[Gary Stevens]

Ok perhaps I slept through those meetings. Maybe I dreamed that rules stability was part of the formula. Who knows.

[MikeRush]

Questions for international practical shooters.

1. What that is the reason we have to separate USPSA apart from IPSC?

2. As we know that some Rules are different, then, why IPSC is still accepted USPSA as a Region?

3. Why countries or country zone or in the continental level dont have their own Practical Shooting handling by themselves and are accepted same as USPSA?

Remark; About Nils case. As details are showing in this link> http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=177767&page=3, It is a big failure which showing the weakness of IPSC Rules. And, IPSC Regulator should resign instead of argue about what they have sacrificed.

Just a guess based on the Nils comment you are in the Phillipines. If I'm not mistaken you have the PPSA, right? I'm also guessing you haven't looked at the Appendix in the rulebook demonstrating the limits for equipment positioning. Before calling for someone's resignation you might want to do that. Not that it would have mattered...

To answer 1, as an international practical pistol shooter you don't have to do anything with USPSA. It doesn't really affect you if USPSA has rules that are different from IPSC. I hope to shoot an IPSC match or two next year, and will do my best to understand and abide by that ruleset. I don't agree with all of IPSC's rules or all of USPSA's rules for that matter but I try to enjoy them for what they are.

Have other regions attempted to create specialized rulesets? I know some countries are limited to 10 rounds, no military calibers, etc but that is more compliance than the development of a separate ruleset.

What is the role of the PPSA in IPSC? Are there any rules differences? As an IPSC shooter outside the US would you like an individualized ruleset? As far as IPSC "accepting" the US as a region it certainly is one. When we shoot IPSC we play by IPSC, and not USPSA rules. If anything it is an advantage to IPSC shooters, as shooters from the US have different equipment, targets, rules, and stage balance than IPSC.

[Blackhawk]

Yeah, it is the biggest IPSC region that doesn't run IPSC matches.

Not true, we must run at least one IPSC match a year in order to field a team to compete at the IPSC World Shoot every 3 years. USPSA fills out their WS teams based on points earned at these US IPSC Nationals, plus USPSA Nationals and USPSA Area Championships...