Pro Chrono POS

[phecksel]

I had several different recipies I ran through the chrono today.

10 rounds of each flavor. I recorded anywhere from 3 to 8 rounds of data for each recipe.

I did clip... ok, direct hit, the guide wire, and believe it or not the POS seemed to work better afterward.

Prior outtings with this POS resulted in almost zero data being recorded. MFG claimed insufficient lighting, and I've received ZERO followup from the mfg. I did color each of the bullets with a black permanent marker.

Mid day, bright sunlight, I did get some results today.

Incredibly high std dev from all of my 147gr 9mm loads, but it got interesting on the 115gr loads. I had one data outlier out of 8, but the other 7 were incredibly tight.

While I don't believe anything coming out of the chrono, and since I've now "damaged" it, I don't think I'll be able to return it. Mfg not even willing to consider looking at it for warranty is disturbing, the 115gr data set is interesting.

Suggestions?

[Sarge]

I suggest you do a search and read up on the pro chrono on these forums. Then try to figure out why you are practically the ONLY person to be unhappy with pro chrono and their service.

Hint: you will find most of us here who use them have no problems. A few have shot them head on and gotten replacements or repair for modest cost.

[phecksel]

IDK, only one email communication from them, didn't respond to my answers to the question. I can't explain why they can't or won't offer any further assistance.

Interesting the fact it's performance improved after getting smacked.

[RDA]

Have you used a chronograph before this one?

[UFO]

If you had it sitting in direct sunlight, that is where your issue is. They need to be in good light , but shaded. In bright conditions I use card board to shade the unit and it works flawlesly....

[phecksel]

1st time I used it, afternoon sun, thin cloud layer, virtually nothing read
2nd time, on my deck with the airsoft pistol, afternoon sun, unit shaded by the house, virtually nothing read
3rd time, mid day, no clouds unit only shaded by the white top pieces, got some readings, but also some HUGE variation in readings.

After I nailed one of the guide rods, the last group went a little bit better with fairly consistent readings, except for one outlier.
String 1 -147 gr, new brass, 3.7 CFEP
859
834
828
827
829

String 2 - 147gr mixed brass 3.9 CFEP
211
738
854
864

String 3 - 147gr, new brass, 3.9 CFEP
869
755
859
742
851
840
838
816

String 4 - 147gr, new brass, 4.1 CFEP
735
790
891

String 5 - 115gr, new brass, 231 4.6
1093
1135
1127
1084
1093
876

All strings were 10 rounds each. Each powder load was weighed on the digital scale, which has one decimal place accuracy. OAL was measured and most within a couple of thousands, but OAL was not tracked to individual shots. Match primers. Range pickup brass, identified as mixed brass. New brass, exactly that, brand new. powder was CFE pistol or Win 231. Bullets were round nose, either 115 gr or 147 gr. For this test I marked all bullets with a black permanent marker. It darkened the bullets slightly.

Given the time I put into making sure the powder was consistent, I saw more variation then expected. Especially considering how few shots the unit recorded.

[safeactionjackson]

I use it with the low light/indoor light kit, absolutely an awesome chrono. Did a comparison with another model, fps was almost identical between the two, however the pro chrono digital had a larger window of area that would actually produce results, the other model only seemed to record data from a narrow area.

I'm thinking operator error, shooting it doesn't help your case.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Steve RA]

I'm sure you can get another upright at a reasonable price. If bright sun, put a target with white side down over the factory shades.

Best time is a solid cloud cover.

[warpspeed]

The only time I have had issues with mine were when the battery was low.

That, and it seems to turn itself on in the storage box. I keep a package of 9 volt batteries in my range bag. Come to think of it, I have a small blue box filled with all kinds of batteries in my range bag.

[peterthefish]

As far as your velocities, other than the 211 FPS, they don't look out of the ordinary. You can take all the care you want in loading - you're probably not going to see single digit ES with what you're loading. There are more variables than charge weight at play.

I would expect as you push the CFE 147s towards the max load they'll continue to tighten up. I get similar velocity spreads with Power Pistol light loads - similar burn rate to CFE.

[Rwm983]

Some of those are right around the speed of sound. measuring subsonic can be kind of tricky. Try putting a piece of cardboard in front of both sensors to block the subsonic bow wave, I work a lot with suppressed subsonic rounds. If you dont know what the bow wave is there are some pictures on google photos. I'm still waiting for the Labradar system to come out since radar reads correctly at any speed. Good luck

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd try following some of the suggestions listed above,

with FACTORY ammo.

Let's see how much of the discrepancies are a result

of your reloading vs. your use of the chrono - take

one factor at a time.

Sounds like you're new at both reloading and using

a chrono.

Using factory ammo lowers our observations to one

variable at a time.

Frustrating isn't it? Good luck working this through.

But, it IS worth it - and can be a lot of fun to reload

your own ammo and kow what it is capable of doing

from a velocity and accuracy perspective.

p.s. I wouldn't bother trying to determine the velocity

of airsoft ammo just yet - concentrate on your

actual ammo until you get the bugs out.

[Lifeislarge]

At what distance are you shooting through the chrono? I think the manufacturer recommends 3 yards but don't quote me on that. I do know that with mine, get too close and the readings are all over the place. I set mine up with a target at 7 yards, chrono at 3 and look for both function and accuracy. If you have rounds that are keyholing you'll see it on the paper and these could be one of the causes of deviation.

[phecksel]

Yes I'm new to reloading.

Airsoft, because I can do it on my deck instead of being tied to range operating hours.

Light cloud over resulted in zero readings, can't imagine heavy cloud cover being any better.

Hitting the guide wire actually improved the readings. Like I knocked something into alignment.

I didn't measure the distance, but it was between 3-4 yds.

I didn't have a target set up, but have never seen keyhole on any other prior shoots.

Been awhile since I've shot SD ammo... so maybe I'll shoot some of that next time out.

Should I allow more time between shots? As soon as the speed displayed I made the next shot.

[RiggerJJ]

Im thinking its a defective unit. My procrono digital works in all kinds of outdoor lighting, bright sunlight, diffused, cloudy, rifle, pistol, shotgun, doesn't seem to care too much about distance from firearm, and its not anywhere as finiky as my M2. (Which is now for sale)

jmho

jj

[safeactionjackson]

Yes I'm new to reloading.

Airsoft, because I can do it on my deck instead of being tied to range operating hours.

Light cloud over resulted in zero readings, can't imagine heavy cloud cover being any better.

Hitting the guide wire actually improved the readings. Like I knocked something into alignment.

I didn't measure the distance, but it was between 3-4 yds.

I didn't have a target set up, but have never seen keyhole on any other prior shoots.

Been awhile since I've shot SD ammo... so maybe I'll shoot some of that next time out.

Should I allow more time between shots? As soon as the speed displayed I made the next shot.

I doubt hitting the chrono has helped you situation much if any.

Placing a target behind the chrono is the way to go, we (chrono night at the range, a small group of shooters) will usually place an orange (or other high viz 2"-3" round target) about a foot or so behind the chrono. You should get better result if the reading are all in the same area, although this isn't as important with the prochrono digital... when compared to other chronos. Replace the target ass needed.

I wouldn't waste time with the air soft stuff, even if more convenient until you've ruled out an actual problem with the chrono.

We normally setup at ten feet, manual says 10'-15'. Ten has worked for every load except 10mm with BlueDot. BlueDot has a serious muzzle blast (plus we are indoors), I had to move the chrono to 15'.... and that has helped a lot. Prior to moving it would read 5 of 10 shots. At 15' it reads 95% of shots.

Keep in mind if you let it record bad shots, it will really mess up your averages/standard deviation.

I delete bad shots from my laptop in order to get better, and more accurate data.

Rushing shots may also be causing an issues. As mentioned above, you need to purge any bad shots or things will be messed up. Chrono'ing 10mm with its heavy muzzle blast required me to really slow things down.

Hope this helps.

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[phecksel]

It will be a minimum of a couple of weeks before I can get it out to the range again.

The only reason I didn't do a target this round, I was being cognizant of my baby sitters time. I'm now a member of that club, so I can go out there and just shoot.

I'll extend the distance out a bit further and wait even longer between shots...

[AlphaSeeker]

Hitting an upright may indicate that you were shooting off center. Placing a target will help keep the bullet in line with the detectors and ensure reading. Shooting too high or too low over the sensors can screw up data collection.

[IDescribe]

Light cloud over resulted in zero readings, can't imagine heavy cloud cover being any better.

This could be part of your problem. You can't seem to imagine less light could be better. Cloudless skies and direct sunlight suck for chronos, and the little sky screens aren't much help in my experience. Overcast mornings with indirect light coming in from the side works great. Direct sunlight from directly overhead in the middle of the day sucks. If it's a cloudless sky early in the day, I will actually set up standard to the side of it and cast a direct shadow over the whole unit. If it's cloudless in the middle of the day, I will put something directly over the top of the unit to diffuse light. Low, diffused light is what you want.

Edited October 14, 2014 by IDescribe

[phecksel]

Small update.

Bright sunny day, put a piece of white cardboard over the top of the unit at the house and shot some blue airsoft. Extremely consistend numbers came out of it. Did a little bit of experimentation on elevation above the unit. Any closer than 2" and it wouldn't read. Any further than about 6" and it wouldn't read or would "err".

When I did talk to the mfg, they told me the unit needed lots of light, not less, and I should consider the accessory light kit. Which is why I "assumed" more light is required.

Might get out to the range next weekend,

[Steve RA]

The accessory light kit is for indoor use - or, I guess - in the dark outside.

[phecksel]

Finally got life out of the way and out to the range again.

I had bought a white plastic piece that I was going to use as a shroud, but got all the way to the outdoor range before I realized I forgot it. However, it was mid day sun and pretty heavy overcast.

This session went much much better. I was extremely pleased the chronograph and it's results. Feeding directly to my lap top was a joy. Only had one "bad" data point and a couple of "err" data points.

Biggest surprise of the day, how little difference new brass was to mixed range brass. I had several comparisons in the prior tests, but literally have to discount those tests. This session only contained one direct mixed v new brass comparison.

CFEP 3.9 Extreme 147 Mixed 899 22.0 CFEP 3.9 Extreme 147 New 899 14.0

I'm still disappointed in how sensitive this unit is to the operational light. Too much and it doesn't read properly, too little and it doesn't read properly. Hoping the white shroud will decrease it's sensitivity.

Edited November 15, 2014 by phecksel

[jmorris]

I'm sure you can get another upright at a reasonable price. If bright sun, put a target with white side down over the factory shades.

Best time is a solid cloud cover.

This is good advice IMO. I don't even bother with the sky screens in that case.

I needed to use a chrono in the dark to help out my brother in law years ago and this setup worked fine.

They work by looking for the shadow. Direct sunlight to the sensors always mess them up. A tilting camera tripod allows you to angle them so they will work under conditions where they normally "error".

[phecksel]

After smacking the guide bar a couple of times, it started working mucho better. Must have knocked something "tight" LOL

It worked great... right up until I learned the difference between scope elevation and rifle barrel elevation. Chrony survived the first tag, but not the second!

[CSPCRX]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that. I am so worried about hitting it every time i use it.