Chokes for 3Gun

[GaGunner]

I have the standard chokes, full, modified, and improved cylinder, and was wondering if I should add either a diffuser choke, cylinder choke, or a skeet choke. I have been running the IC, but would like to open the pattern up for close in shots. I am only shooting club matches and most of the shotgun stuff is fairly close. I have a 24 inch Super Nova and I using Federal Field and Target, 71/2 or 8. (I favor #8) The box says it is 3 Dram, 11/8, velocity of 1200 fps. This is the 100 shell bulk packs sold at Wal-Mart and other fine retailers. Suggestions?

[P.E. Kelley]

Read this...http://www.multigunmedia.com/3gn-choke-and-loads.pdf

[Moltke]

Nice read!

[roxymajor]

Definitely a cylinder choke. On 75% of your local match stages with your 24" barrel, cylinder choke will do.

Diffuser chokes are great but expensive, especially nice on Clay stages.

Edited September 23, 2014 by roxymajor

[DocMedic]

Umm.. Is that suppose to read:

"GET THE MOST OUT

OF YOUR SHOJGUN AM

WITH THE RIGK:wKOKE AND

LftAD COMBINATION"

[P.E. Kelley]

Umm.. Is that suppose to read:

"GET THE MOST OUT

OF YOUR SHOJGUN AM

WITH THE RIGK:wKOKE AND

LftAD COMBINATION"

I don't know why it does that. I just write the article and someone else formats them.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Mr. Kelley knows all bout the scattergun and has forgotten more than most of us know.

That said....I'm lazy. I shoot with a Skeet2/LightMod choke in my M2 for everything...literally. I'm comfortable with it, know where it hits, and rarely miss with it. I won two stages at the Rockcastle Benelli Shotgun match and the all shotgun stage at the Pro-Am, aside from forgetting a target at Generation III Gun, I would have beat the top time there by over a second.....all while shooting the same SK2/LM choke and 1145fps Winchester AA's, Winchester Ranger low recoil slugs, and Federal flight control low recoil buckshot. and maybe some "high brass" specialty loads mixed in there

[Rob01]

From my limited 3 gun experience, I use mostly the IC and Mod choke in my Benelli M1 with a 26" barrel. I usually use the Winchester 7 1/2, 1 1/8 load in the 100 round pack from Walmart. IC works good with slugs too although I have also shot it through my Mod. I did use my Cylinder for the first time this past weekend at FNH on the Pro Series Classifier stage but I think the IC would have worked as well. I run IC most of the time except for those longer heavy steel targets to knock them off the pedestal. You should be fine with what you have. Practice dual and quad loads and spend the money on shell holders for them instead of more chokes.

[Moltke]

When I started 3G I was told to get a LM choke and just run it for everything.

So I bought a LM.

Then I noticed people using CYL if all they had to shoot were clays, going fast and hosing, and it was working.

So I bought a CYL.

Then I noticed there were still some hard set steel, kinda set far, that my LM wouldn't knock over (rarely or I'm just unsure of my gear still).

So I bought a MOD.

Then I noticed people were using IC on steel alot of the time if it was midrange or close, and it was working.

So I bought an IC.

So now that I have a CYL, IC, & MOD available - I don't use LM anymore.

CYL if only clays

IC on close steel

MOD on far steel

And always choke up for what I think the hardest shot is going to be.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Moltke

[Jakobi]

SK & IC mostly. I'll choke up to M for long or tight shots. Thinking about a Diffusion but the jury is still out. I also have F & XF but I've never used them in 3-gun. Shooting a 28" Nova Pump that started out as my field/trap gun.

[Jadeslade]

Don't forget no shoots! Sometimes a mod (Horner matches) is super helpful to not knock something down!

[MarkCO]

I think guys like Patrick Kelley should only be allowed to run EF chokes...I think I will start a campaign to get that into the rulesets.

Seriously, PK knows the scatterguns so well, his wife should be jealous!

I still use a good amount of LM, but I go from Skeet to Full depending on what there is. I'll also use different loads on a stage which might save me a miss here and there. But knowing the patterns and what you need to see is always better.

I have been fortunate enough to shoot with PK a few times, I think everytime I asked him what choke he was using, I was using more, as were other top level shotguners, so I tried less choke on the practice range and found out I was too choked. I might miss a target here and there, but overall, it has helped to get away from the total reliance on LM and use just enough to get the job done.

[Jakobi]

P.E., how were the poppers calibrated for your article?

[P.E. Kelley]

Good question...Factory 9mm/115 @ 15 yards. in circle. Shots 10" lower did not make them fall.

[bigbrowndog]

If the match is set up "properly" all targets should break or fall with a Cyl choked gun, from the nearest possible location they can be shot from. that includes targets w no shoots. the problem is when MD's don't want to "properly" set up targets, and there seems to be quite a few of those in the last 3-5 years.

On a side note, if you chose to run a more open choke ( for close range hosing) you can find yourself doing the same type of hosing when you don't have wide open targets or clays to break. this type of mental conditioning is what leads to misses when you should be making hits and hitting no shoots when you should be hitting shoot targets.

Technical use of the shotgun will always beat wide open fast and loose shooting, especially when target distance increases or no shoot placement is a factor. Technical use keeps you from having to load that extra round for the miss you just incurred by shooting fast and loose.

Its a shotgun but you should still AIM it!!!.........(capitals for emphasis, not yelling)

Trapr

Edited September 24, 2014 by bigbrowndog

[Rob01]

If the match is set up "properly" all targets should break or fall with a Cyl choked gun, from the nearest possible location they can be shot from. that includes targets w no shoots. the problem is when MD's don't want to "properly" set up targets, and there seems to be quite a few of those in the last 3-5 years.

Why is it "proper" to do that?

[MarkCO]

Just one opinion, there are lots of others that disagree.

[Vlad]

I'll take this a step further ...

I'm a shotgun idiot. I understand how choke works, but I shoot shotgun like a shoot a crummy rifle.

When do you decide to switch chokes, what are your lines of "hmm I need tighter or I need looser"?

[Jakobi]

USPSA 3-gun popper calibration procedures are the same as the handgun only rules (i.e. poppers are calibrated with sub minor 9mm regardless of which type of gun they are to be shot with). Makes sense to me as it's easier to define the variables. That said, I like to play with distances and target sizes to make it more challenging. Rewards the shooters that know how to use their shotgun rather than turning it into a hose fest.

I determine choke size by knowing the range to my targets, the shot pattern for a given choke/load, and proximity to other targets and no-shoots. Then I go with the most open choke possible. Sometimes targets barely fall over but the extra forgiveness the pattern size gives you is generally worth it. Some of this boils down to experience and some boils down to reading articles like P.E.'s.

[MarkCO]

The "typical" load of 1 ounce at 1200 fps is about 520 PF. For a typical KD plate, you need about 50-60 PF to knock it off the stand, so, theoretically, I need about 1/9th of the pellets on target. If I have a 6" plate and a 24" pattern, I am border line, but that plate better be in the pattern. If I have a 10" pattern, I need about 1/3rd of it on target to knock off that plate. A typical popper takes about 130 PF to take over, so you need about 1/4 of the pattern on target.

If you watch some of the top shotgun guys in our game, you will notice that they typically move the plates less distance from the stands with fewer pellets on target. They get speed by having a combination of sight picture and pattern that they know will take out the plates. If you are kicking plates 10feet plus from the stands, you are likely using too much choke.

If there are barriers or no shoots, you need to do the same analysis, how much pattern do I need on the target to get it over. I'll put my bead off the plate in some cases in that scenario because I know what needs to be on the plate and what my pattern size is at the range.

Clays, as long as it is in the pattern and you don't have holes (like the center out at about 20 yards with a Diffusion) you will break the target. Misses on clays are often due to too much choke.

Target and stand construction are part of it, some are terrible, some a breeze will blow of a KD steel.

If you have slugs, you better know where you hit with the choke you choose, same with buckshot.

Since I use USPSA rules, all the steel is checked to make sure it will go over with a 122PF 9mm per the calibration procedures.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MarkCO

[bigbrowndog]

No Mark,.........Its a rule!!! its probably the first rule in the history of practical shotgunning that was made to keep the target presentation fair!!! IPSC ruleset.

Its probably also the first rule to be tossed aside by those wishing to present targets how they see they should be presented, to hell with "fairness"

Waaaaay Back in the old days, "practical/tactical shotguns didn't have no stinkin' chokes, you could have wide open CYL, or you could have super tight CYL. whichever you wanted as long as it was CYL.

Its probably also the first "calibration" method for practical shotgunning, they also tell you what ammo to use. But hey who has time to read the rules!?!?!?!?

Trapr

[MarkCO]

Not in the ruleset I use, so it is not a rule. It used to be a law that you had to fire a pistol before driving a car through an intersection in Denver. No longer, antiquated rules go bye bye.

[Jadeslade]

There is nothing antiquated about IPSC shotgun rules.I really like the target arrays I have seen under IPSC shotgun rules, especially speed shoots. You calibrate your poppers and stuff, but many don't. At Task Force Dagger last year some of the poppers were extremely heavy. Some matches you just know to bring heavy loads. Same with no shoots. It is hard to avoid them with just technique when they are bracketed. So having a mod choke is very helpful. That said, if you don't pattern your chokes at target distance, which can be tedious for some, but which I find a nice day at the range, you are just guessing. I think I'll try that intersection thing the next time I in Denver. [emoji4]

[Rob01]

Just one opinion, there are lots of others that disagree.

I disagree too but wanted to hear his reasoning.

[MarkCO]

No Mark,.........Its a rule!!! its probably the first rule in the history of practical shotgunning that was made to keep the target presentation fair!!! IPSC ruleset.

Trapr

Hardly the first rule either. I had to go and check to be sure, but the first ruleset for the first SOF match required buckshot and slugs only, no birdshot at all. Most will agree that birdshot is practical for birds, but the "tactical" shotgun...not so much. We only shoot birdshot because it is cheaper, so we really left the "practical" at the doorstep when birdshot entered the picture. But, hey I made time to go read the rules.

Maybe next year I will go retro and recreate an original SOF shotgun stage.