matt7184 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) My mistake then, should have been "3rd-party manufacturer". like wilson combat?...... They don't make the Beretta nor have I ever seen them claim to. And if they did "make" a Beretta, they would never be the OEM. Edited September 12, 2014 by matt7184 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 CZC is a THIRD party gunsmith. CZC is a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, just like wilson combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Are you having trouble reading? CZC is NOT an OEM manufacturer...Go back and read my post, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 CZC is a THIRD party gunsmith. CZC is a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, just like wilson combat. They have a manufacturer's license. This does not mean they manufacture guns. They alter and modify already manufactured firearms. They are not the OEM. Why does the AccuShadow say Made in Czech Republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So the Accu is in the 2014 CZ print catalog. It is on the CZ-USA website and has a SKU but some here still contend it is not a product of CZ. Well I am not sure CZ would agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So the Accu is in the 2014 CZ print catalog. It is on the CZ-USA website and has a SKU but some here still contend it is not a product of CZ. Well I am not sure CZ would agree with you. CZ-USA does not make guns (http://cz-usa.com/company/about-cz-usa/). Nor do they make the hats they sell...Just because CZ-USA and CZC play BS games in Production to make their guns "legal", does not mean the same applies in another sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I get your point but I do not agree. And using the hat example is engaging in Reductio ad absurdum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 You can disagree because you do not comprehend all you want. IDPA has spoken and according to them and anyone with half a brain, CZC is not the OEM and the AccuShadow cannot be used in SSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So to support your argument you resort to argumentum ad hominem. You are batting 1000 my friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) 1. I shoot production because i like the simplicity of being able to pick up a stock gun, change some trigger components in it and race.2. It doesnt mean i have to buy them but it DOES mean that we are going to see ALOT of frustration when new members are out classed by flashy race guns and cant understand why. 3. When was the last time you guys brought new shooters to the game? I bring them as often as i can and the collective response is "man, i feel like i need all of that flashy gear". "Or, man, i want a better gun". 4. Are these thoughts "correct"? No, absolutely not but i know a handful of people that havent returned because they dont believe their Glocks are competitive and they're saving up for Shadows. 5. Have we really become such elitist gaming turds that we believe its OK to bend rules in order to suit the wallets of the gun manufacturers? Im all for making money and pushing boundaries but at some point, given that this is a GAME we either need to draw a line, further define said line or do away with it. Unintentional funniest comments yet! I agree with your first sentence. Any gun used in competition can be called a "race" gun despite the division. You did say "race," right? In your second sentence, you say a lot of new shooters are going to be "out classed by flashy race guns...". So a race gun becomes a "flashy race gun" when a bushing is added? A bushing, right? Ever 1911? Does flashy speed up my draw, reloads, follow up shots? If so, excellent! Third sentence above.....seriously?! Who doesn't feel that way? Who doesn't want the latest set of golf clubs, the latest smart phone, the latest high def tv, or the latest gun? I do. That's why I have an Accu. It sure as hell hasn't made me a better shooter just because it's an Accu. The first time I shot a match (with a Beretta PX4) I had a leather holster and cloth mag holders. Damn right I thought "Man, I need some better gear if I'm going to take this seriously." Fourth sentence. Sounds more like a personal problem. If a new shooter feels intimidated by what someone else is shooting, it's more of a reflection of the shooters ability, not the gun.. As I've stated, I regularly get beat by guys shooting polymer guns (and I'm shooting an Accu). It's not the gun. And the first time any of us shot a match, we all felt intimidated. That's natural. And hard to believe they felt their Glock was inferior when there are several Glock shooters at every match I've ever shot. Fifth sentence. So we can all be clear on your statement, what should the dollar level limit be for a Production gun? $500 limit? $1000 limit? $2000? At what price point does one become an "elitiest gaming turd?" Thanks again for those comments. Hilarious! Edited September 12, 2014 by JGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) None of those thoughts are my own. They are observations. I would call you a fool for wanting the latest golf clubs because you think they are going to give you a perceived advantage but i dont know you so i will instead refer to the idea itself as foolish. You say you dont think its going to give you an advantage but then you turn around and admit you bought the "best". You are associating "latest" with "greatest". Personally, i buy the shittiest gear and run it until it breaks, look to myself to diagnose my short comings, see where i can improve and then buy the next set of gear to suit my current skill level. Again, i dont care that the gun has a bushing or shoots 1.5 inch groups at a zillion yards. It is a gun, created by a custom shop using non OEM parts to create a mechanical advantage. IF CZ custom fit an internal, oversized bushing then rock on but they are taking guns, milling them to fit a non OEM bushing and plug and playing games to pass it off as a CZ UB OEM product. Edited September 12, 2014 by Magsz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 None of those thoughts are my own. They are observations. I would call you a fool for wanting the latest golf clubs because you think they are going to give you a perceived advantage but i dont know you so i will instead refer to the idea itself as foolish. You say you dont think its going to give you an advantage but then you turn around and admit you bought the "best". You are associating "latest" with "greatest". Okay, now I get it, you have no original thoughts and like to play golf! BTW, I'm an "Elitist Gaming Turd" as an avocation only, not my vocation. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 This thread is great! Not the usual knowledge to be gained on a benos thread, but very entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) None of those thoughts are my own. They are observations. I would call you a fool for wanting the latest golf clubs because you think they are going to give you a perceived advantage but i dont know you so i will instead refer to the idea itself as foolish. You say you dont think its going to give you an advantage but then you turn around and admit you bought the "best". You are associating "latest" with "greatest". Personally, i buy the shittiest gear and run it until it breaks, look to myself to diagnose my short comings, So you are admitting the latest equipment in PRD provide no actual advantage, just like in golf? Its the shooter that matters, not the gun? Its the golfer that maters, not the golf clubs? Thank you for validating my point. Edited September 12, 2014 by JGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) I said no such thing. When you quote someone it is generally a good idea to quote the entire statement. Are you sure you guys arent closet liberals? Gear compliments the shooter, generally speaking, not the other way around. The term you cant polish a turd comes to mind...unless you give it an accushadow HAR! To MGardner...im glad you have no clue how to read and im also glad i dont like golf...phew. Edited September 12, 2014 by Magsz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Well I'm pretty darn upset! I must have bought broken Accu Shadows (or should I say, FRG, Flashy Race Gun)! My FRG is getting beat by Glocks and M&P's! Granted, the shooters themselves are better than me, but that shouldn't matter. It is an Accu Shadow. I guess I deserve it being that i'm an elitist gaming turd. Edited September 12, 2014 by JGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I said no such thing. When you quote someone it is generally a good idea to quote the entire statement. Are you sure you guys arent closet liberals? Gear compliments the shooter, generally speaking, not the other way around. The term you cant polish a turd comes to mind...unless you give it an accushadow HAR! To MGardner...im glad you have no clue how to read and im also glad i dont like golf...phew. I'm old and confused most days, except Tuesday Nights. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 that front sight point is milled on the wilson combat beretta in a way that it didn't come from stock. that front sight dovetail is milled in by wc. slide milling, should make it illegal ssp. but it's not. wilson didn't manufacture that beretta in any way using the same arguments you've used against czc. at least czusa recognizes czc in all their official marketing material. and i'd still bet you a month's paycheck that there aren't 2 thousand of those wc berettas in existence. it really isnt about the gun. it's about how decisions are made, the information given out, the lack of transparency, the poor timing, the flip flopping. all of the human side of it. it's about how idpa acts as an organization and treats its competitors. i have nothing more to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 that front sight point is milled on the wilson combat beretta in a way that it didn't come from stock. that front sight dovetail is milled in by wc. slide milling, should make it illegal ssp. but it's not. wilson didn't manufacture that beretta in any way using the same arguments you've used against czc. at least czusa recognizes czc in all their official marketing material. and i'd still bet you a month's paycheck that there aren't 2 thousand of those wc berettas in existence. it really isnt about the gun. it's about how decisions are made, the information given out, the lack of transparency, the poor timing, the flip flopping. all of the human side of it. it's about how idpa acts as an organization and treats its competitors. i have nothing more to say about it. Second paragraph for the win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Rowdy, Keep in mind that Wilson also offers a package for the M92A1 which HAS a front dovetailed sight already. Also, correct me if im wrong but has anyone actually stated WHICH Wilson Beretta is supposedly legal for SSP? As i said earlier, i would hazard a guess that the standard 92 with the drilled front sight for the fiber rod is indeed illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johes Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 that front sight point is milled on the wilson combat beretta in a way that it didn't come from stock. that front sight dovetail is milled in by wc. slide milling, should make it illegal ssp. but it's not. wilson didn't manufacture that beretta in any way using the same arguments you've used against czc. at least czusa recognizes czc in all their official marketing material. and i'd still bet you a month's paycheck that there aren't 2 thousand of those wc berettas in existence. it really isnt about the gun. it's about how decisions are made, the information given out, the lack of transparency, the poor timing, the flip flopping. all of the human side of it. it's about how idpa acts as an organization and treats its competitors. i have nothing more to say about it. Second paragraph for the win! Absolutely! That's all that needs to be said. Thanks Rowdy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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