Experience with bushing comps?

[km625]

Hello:

Anybody here have experience with bushing-mounted

compensators? Looking to comp my 9mm STI for steel

shooting--and in NY State threaded barrels are a no-go.

(No, moving is not an option.)

k morris

nys

[Guest]

I presume you mean a compensator that is integral with the bushing and reciprocates with the slide.

Used to be able to get them at gun shows cheap, and I got a cheap one and played with it. Didn’t do much for a 45 compared to a real compensated 45.

Personally, I think it would be more productive focusing on developing a good steel load for your STI 9mm and shooting in the limited division.

There is so little gas from a bunny fart 9mm that I don’t think a bushing compensator would do anything to help your times, and a comp will put you in open where you need a dot to be competitive.

[DougCarden]

Get a Schuemann ported barrel... may be the only effective option. The bushing comps are usually junk and don't work at all.

DougC

[superdude]

Contrary to what has been posted, a well designed bushing comp like the Wilson Combat Multi-Comp reduces muzzle rise for a wide range of calibers. Empirical test data is presented at the link below. They are not as effective as a traditional compensator, but they work.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/reducing-recoil-traditional-vs-bushing-compensators/

[OPENB]

Or you could rebarrel with an STI S2 barrel/comp. It's all one piece, so no threaded barrel.

[kneelingatlas]

What about a Trubor? http://www.1911store.com/sti-trubore-barrel/comp-wiht-ti/t2-comp.aspx

[EngineerEli]

Contrary to what has been posted, a well designed bushing comp like the Wilson Combat Multi-Comp reduces muzzle rise for a wide range of calibers. Empirical test data is presented at the link below. They are not as effective as a traditional compensator, but they work.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/reducing-recoil-traditional-vs-bushing-compensators/

That article is actually really surprising and interesting. Makes me want to go out and get one of those Wilson ones just to play with on my STI Eagle!

[mike cyrwus]

Contrary to what has been posted, a well designed bushing comp like the Wilson Combat Multi-Comp reduces muzzle rise for a wide range of calibers. Empirical test data is presented at the link below. They are not as effective as a traditional compensator, but they work.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/reducing-recoil-traditional-vs-bushing-compensators/

if accuracy wasnt tested, then that article is nothing more than an ad to pay for Bills next safari

[Dirty Rod]

Many times it's the extra weight at the muzzle that is helping to prevent muzzle rise as opposed to the redirected gas. I've never tried Wilson but Ive tested others and, as Mike alluded to above, the bushing to barrel fit was so much worse than the factory bushing that accuracy was negatively affected.

[superdude]

Many times it's the extra weight at the muzzle that is helping to prevent muzzle rise as opposed to the redirected gas. I've never tried Wilson but Ive tested others and, as Mike alluded to above, the bushing to barrel fit was so much worse than the factory bushing that accuracy was negatively affected.

The article demonstrates that the gas is producing the reduction in muzzle rise with the Wilson.

[MikeRush]

Hello:

Anybody here have experience with bushing-mounted

compensators? Looking to comp my 9mm STI for steel

shooting--and in NY State threaded barrels are a no-go.

(No, moving is not an option.)

k morris

nys

If you are looking at bushing solely because it is NY compliant you have a few other options. The Trubor like kneelingatlas mentioned is one, something like a ported Schumann or Infinity Hybrid is another (or maybe popple holes in a standard barrel), or potentially (depending on laws) some sort of permanently attached threaded comp. I'm not familiar with NY laws but I know here in CA some companies sell or have sold pistols with threaded barrels (which would make them CA assault weapons) that have pinned and welded or silver soldered muzzle devices.

With permanent attachment like that I think it would be hard for someone to say it is a threaded barrel. You would need a machine tool to remove, and if you had that you could cut threads on a plain barrel...

I'd pass on the bushing comp personally. Ive tried a bushing comped 45 and was not impressed. Depending on competition rules it might bump you to open and I just can't see it being worth it.

[Dirty Rod]

Many times it's the extra weight at the muzzle that is helping to prevent muzzle rise as opposed to the redirected gas. I've never tried Wilson but Ive tested others and, as Mike alluded to above, the bushing to barrel fit was so much worse than the factory bushing that accuracy was negatively affected.

The article demonstrates that the gas is producing the reduction in muzzle rise with the Wilson.

I read that statement in the article but it didn't say how that was determined nor does he include any detail on how gas affect was being measured versus overall recoil reduction. I'm sure there is some affect but his sidebar also talks about gas escaping around the bullet due to the large exit hole in the bushing. I'm not doubting that Wilson makes a quality product just curious about how much of it is due to gas versus weight. I tried a half dozen comps years back and the best at recoil reduction was a heavy ass ebay thing that looked cool but undoubtedly was poor at redirecting gas. Unfortunately, it turned my 3" gun into a 10" gun.

[superdude]

Many times it's the extra weight at the muzzle that is helping to prevent muzzle rise as opposed to the redirected gas. I've never tried Wilson but Ive tested others and, as Mike alluded to above, the bushing to barrel fit was so much worse than the factory bushing that accuracy was negatively affected.

The article demonstrates that the gas is producing the reduction in muzzle rise with the Wilson.

I read that statement in the article but it didn't say how that was determined nor does he include any detail on how gas affect was being measured versus overall recoil reduction. I'm sure there is some affect but his sidebar also talks about gas escaping around the bullet due to the large exit hole in the bushing. I'm not doubting that Wilson makes a quality product just curious about how much of it is due to gas versus weight. I tried a half dozen comps years back and the best at recoil reduction was a heavy ass ebay thing that looked cool but undoubtedly was poor at redirecting gas. Unfortunately, it turned my 3" gun into a 10" gun.

Let me see if I can help explain the effect. The comparison looks at 2 or 3 gunpowders that require different charge weights for the same velocity. More charge weight means more gas. More gas means more recoil (via the principle of conservation of mass). Recoil is measured as muzzle rise by how far the gun moves in the Ransom Rest.

The concept is that compensator function is all about gas. More gas for the same velocity means more muzzle rise with no compensator. With a compensator, more gas means less muzzle rise. That principle is demonstrated by using the traditional EGW compensator. The question then is whether the bushing compensators produce the same effect as the traditional (EGW) compensator.

Take a look at the 40 S&W data since it's the easiest to make sense of with just 2 gunpowders, 3N38 and 231. With no compensator, 3N38 produces more muzzle rise than 231. But 3N38 produces less muzzle rise than 231 with the Wilson compensator. That means the gas diverted by the compensator is reducing the muzzle rise, not the weight of the compensator. If it was just the weight of the compensator, 3N38 would still produce more muzzle rise than 231.

So, a bushing compensator, if it works like a traditional compensator, will produce the "reversal" of muzzle rise (comparing 2 different gunpowders) compared to using no compensator. If the compensator is just dead weight, it will not produce the reversal.

The Wilson Combat Multi-Comp produced the 'reversal' of muzzle rise, therefore it deflects sufficient gas to reduce muzzle rise just like a traditional compensator. However, it does not reduce muzzle rise as much as a traditional compensator because it does allow more gas to escape around the bullet.

The article does not look at how much recoil reduction is due to gas versus the weight of the compensator. The question addressed is whether the Wilson and Innovative Industries comps work like traditional compensators - that is, do they divert gas that reduces muzzle rise. This test used gunpowders that require different charge weights for the same velocity to perform that test. Testing the effect of the weight of the compensator is a different question. That would require a blank compensator the same as the Wilson comp. That's a different question and different test.

Hope that helps.

Edited August 8, 2014 by superdude

[MikeRush]

I'm steering clear of physics debates because its not worth the time for me but one thing to note is a bushing comp will effectively increase your reciprocating weight.

Without going deep it is generally accepted with steel shooting (and especially 9mm) that a lighter slide and load is more gooder.

Also, take a look at the pro Pro Am scores (2014) of open vs limited... it might surprise you. I have my theories.

[Dirty Rod]

Hope that helps.

It does. Thx

[cas]

IIRC the comp would be just as illegal , threads or no threads.

(Unless you already own the gun prior to this April, then of course that comp was already on it.)

[ipscjoe]

Open and limited have two different par times don't they?

[Dranoel]

Get a threaded comp, set it up and then have it welded to the barrel. Now it's not threaded, it's a permanent fixture.

[cas]

Still missing the point lol, the comp is illegal.