Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) If I do not disclose my USPSA number when I sign up for a match, will USPSA receive any fees from the match (classifier or otherwise)? Obviously I could care less about my classification. Looking more to totally withhold any financial support to USPSA from me or my son. I shoot as a hobby and I have a property 2 miles from USA at frostproof. I can shoot every weekend and major matches like the Florida open and the monster match without having to be a USPSA member and having to put up with this nonsense from the executive office. If I could get a refund for my membership fees I would immediately cancel and ask for it. But I definitely don't want any more of my financial support going to the organization. Edited August 1, 2014 by Jollymon32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 What are your gripes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 You can't shoot Level 2 matches or higher without an active USPSA membership, and yes, your level 1 club match still has to pay $1.50 + $1.50 per competitor regardless of member, pending, or new guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Unfortunately participating fees are paid to USPSA for each person who shoots in a sanctioned match. By not providing your USPSA number at a match the only thing you accomplish is that none of your info from the match is recorded by USPSA since you would appear as a non member on the match records forwarded to HQ. If you're that unhappy with USPSA send them a letter asking that your membership be canceled. Who knows, you might get a refund for the unused portion of your membership ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thanks for the info. Just don't want to be affiliated with the organization any longer and provide any support. I believe the organization has lost its way and the leadership is suspect, questionable, and lost my respect and confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizux Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thanks for the info. Just don't want to be affiliated with the organization any longer and provide any support. I believe the organization has lost its way and the leadership is suspect, questionable, and lost my respect and confidence. I hear there is a labyrinth full of trolls with a similar disposition towards USPSA, and have become a complete festering sore for the prim and proper leadership. They probably won't be able to cure whatever you think ails the organization, but you may find it entertaining to watch them try. Their goblin king may be summoned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 To describe the USPSA leadership as prim and proper is like calling Michael Vick a dog lover. But my disillusionment does not come from Doodie, but rather from the USPSA forum itself. But I do give credit where credit is due and admit that Doodie exposed the cheating scandal to everyone and kept it in the limelight. Did this constant exposure drive the resolution? Well we can only surmise, but if the timeline of the COI scandal is of any guide, an educated guess would be that it would of taken months, if ever, for the BOD to act on the cheating scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Obviously there are some waves in the ranks of the leadership but I give them the benefit of the doubt that most are honest in their intentions to be fair and improve the sport. Disagreements and dysfunction at the BOD level won't manifest themselves in any significant way tomorrow when I show up to shoot one of the local club matches. I still enjoy the sport despite the less than ideal sausage making process. Since we vote in Area Directors and the President maybe keeping your membership and voting shooters demonstrating the level of integrity and dedication that you are seeking. Better yet, why don't you run and directly work to improve the imperfections? Edit: I may not like everything the US Government does but I am still not going to move to Mexico. Edited August 1, 2014 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Alma nails it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Edit: I may not like everything the US Government does but I am still not going to move to Mexico. I love that you went there The parallels are staggering aren't they? The beauty of USPSA is that you are free to opt out as the OP intends to do. Voluntary association is the keystone of freedom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill o Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Their goblin king may be summoned here. LOL. Ok, Claudio Fragasso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Obviously there are some waves in the ranks of the leadership but I give them the benefit of the doubt that most are honest in their intentions to be fair and improve the sport. Disagreements and dysfunction at the BOD level won't manifest themselves in any significant way tomorrow when I show up to shoot one of the local club matches. I still enjoy the sport despite the less than ideal sausage making process. Since we vote in Area Directors and the President maybe keeping your membership and voting shooters demonstrating the level of integrity and dedication that you are seeking. Better yet, why don't you run and directly work to improve the imperfections? Edit: I may not like everything the US Government does but I am still not going to move to Mexico. I usually do get involved in any association that I choose to affiliate myself with; I sit on various boards and I am president of several HOA's where I own properties. However, time is scarce and I would not have time to dedicate to yet another association. Having said that, my biggest gripe is that when you do find a candidate that is willing to dedicate the time and effort in getting involved and working to improve the imperfections, the BOD moves to remove the duly elected individual. If I owned property in an association controlled area, found the association to be highly corrupt and or using proceeds in a questionable manner, and I am not willing to get involved to or indeed, that the insiders do not allow for an effort to clean up the mess - then I would sell the property and move on. And that is where I am with USPSA - it is not the only game in town and its product/service is not indispensable. There is no reason that I should be contributing to the purchase of someone's football tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 OK, others may be thinking it, but I have to say it, I mean no disrespect. Good Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Edit: sent a PM instead. Edited August 1, 2014 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 OP, You are certainly entitled to your opinion and free to do whatever you wish. I highly recommend you just do what you want and quit talking about it here. It will soon turn into a pissing contest with you feeling the need to defend your position. You do not have to defend anything! Just cancel your membership if you wish and quietly move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Let me ask this of the OP....What, exactly, has been proven? What has been released to the masses so that we may make judgement of it? You are having a typical knee jerk reaction to an as yet unproved accusation. ..While I will agree, it does not look good, not all the facts have come out, nor are they likely to come out....but until all involved have had their say, stop making assumptions....and as for not giving any money to USPSA, ok....stop....but if you pay a match fee at a sanctioned USPSA match, we will still thank you for your support....if you plan on leaving the sport entirely because of this, I can't say you'll be missed, but I can't say that you won't either...In the end, you must do whatever you feel is right for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 OP, You are certainly entitled to your opinion and free to do whatever you wish. I highly recommend you just do what you want and quit talking about it here. It will soon turn into a pissing contest with you feeling the need to defend your position. You do not have to defend anything! Just cancel your membership if you wish and quietly move on. Thanks Sarge! Not sure what the benefit would be of canceling as there won't be any refund and thus the nature of the original question regarding the fees. Thanks to the input of some of the responses, I now understand the fee structure and the reason why there are 'outlaw' matches. Rhett45acp - likewise, I mean no disrespect to anyone with my line of questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 To lenghten my abbreviated point above. Does USPSA have some issues (not going into it here), Yes. Will they be shaken out? I think so, but it will take time and Facebook, or any public internet forum, is not the place. I can't stand politics, but put three people in a room with one dollar and bingo, fill in the blanks. But I ask to anyone (including the OP), name a better action shooting group in the world? IMHO - USPSA is the best. But, it is only as good as it's people. If the OP has all this experience with HOA ext - then jump in the boat and start paddling. Just to point out there is a leak in the deck and then search for the first life boat is telling. I was reminded by my father many times, do not bring a problem without some form of a solution. That's All - I hope we all get to shoot a match this weekend and have some fun and enjoy this sport that I so love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) With all credit to ken nelson (first I heard make the analogy), it's like the government. I think the government is kinda lame and corrupt and useless (even tho I work for the government), but I'm not renouncing my citizenship and I'm still going to get up and go to work next week and pay taxes because it's better than the alternatives. In the meantime I'll vote, pester my congressman every now and then, etc.... I think some things about USPSA sound a little unusual lately, but none of those things has f***-all effect on the match I'm going to shoot tomorrow, so I'm going to continue shooting and working matches and not freak the f*** out about everything I read on the interwebz. Everyone I know personally that is associated with uspsa is a standup guy. Edited August 1, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Let me ask this of the OP....What, exactly, has been proven? What has been released to the masses so that we may make judgement of it? You are having a typical knee jerk reaction to an as yet unproved accusation. ..While I will agree, it does not look good, not all the facts have come out, nor are they likely to come out....but until all involved have had their say, stop making assumptions....and as for not giving any money to USPSA, ok....stop....but if you pay a match fee at a sanctioned USPSA match, we will still thank you for your support....if you plan on leaving the sport entirely because of this, I can't say you'll be missed, but I can't say that you won't either...In the end, you must do whatever you feel is right for you. "..We can afford to lose money – even a lot of money. But we can’t afford to lose reputation – even a shred of reputation. We must continue to measure every act against not only what is legal but also what we would be happy to have written about on the front page of a national newspaper in an article written by an unfriendly but intelligent reporter...Somebody is doing something today at Berkshire that you and I would be unhappy about if we knew of it. That’s inevitable: We now employ more than 250,000 people and the chances of that number getting through the day without any bad behavior occurring is nil. But we can have a huge effect in minimizing such activities by jumping on anything immediately when there is the slightest odor of impropriety. Your attitude on such matters, expressed by behavior as well as words, will be the most important factor in how the culture of your business develops. Culture, more than rule books, determines how an organization behaves." - Warren Buffett, memo to Berkshire managers. GrumpyOne, not much has been proven, but the fact that the appearance of impropriety exists, that it has existed for months, that not much has been done about this appearance of impropriety, speaks volumes to me of the leadership. I do not have the time, will, or desire to jump in and try to help fix this, but I will not willingly support it either. And while you are 100% spot on that I or my proceeds won't be missed, I recall a quote from Pixar's Bug Life when Hopper (a grasshopper) responds to a comment of "who cares about that little ant". Hopper replies, "You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up! Those puny little ants outnumber us a million to one and if they ever figure that out there goes our way of life! It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 So you want to shoot the matches But don't want to support the organization And you see problems but not willing to help Your shining beacon example of self righteous importance is a model for us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I, like many of you, will shoot a match this weekend that I have been looking forward to since last weekend. I, like some of you, will go home after the match and process all the scores (PS rocks!), email the results along with a thanks to those that helped setup/tear down, then at some point I'll send off the activity report to HQ along with the activity fee. I will then kick back and feel better about myself for having partaken in a sport I enjoy, maybe go clean my gun and brass, and for sure start yearning for the next match I will shoot. The activity fee will cover our cost of hosting a level 1 match, keep the light on at HQ, pay the salary of those that manage the classification system and myriad of other details that keep USPSA humming along. And if a part of our fee goes to the salaries of those who's job it is to un-screw this current mess then I don't begrudge them that at all. 'Merica! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Why not elect someone who promises to change it? Your membership dues entitle you to a say, however minor and insignificant. But i suppose when they say one thing and then do a another self-dealing thing with no practical mechanism for removal, whachya gonna do? Volunteer to do scores! because that will change the incompetence and/or corruption at HQ. Running that practiscore report really keeps those guys in WA in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 So you want to shoot the matches But don't want to support the organization And you see problems but not willing to help Your shining beacon example of self righteous importance is a model for us all Yes,I want to support the local organizers who put up the matches. And yes, I do not want to support the organization and would forgo the benefit that they bring to the table (classification system and shooting L2 and above). And yes, I see a problem and have stated that I do not have the time to get involved. However, I am not striving to be anyone's role model. Do as you think best based on your perceptions. It has been my experience that in organizations managed by exception, a lack of exception equals no change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 Why not elect someone who promises to change it? Your membership dues entitle you to a say, however minor and insignificant. Yeah, about that..... Kinda useless when they try to boot out the agent of change that was elected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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