Moltke Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Everywhere I go, I see different targets & ideas of what is okay. So what is the BE consensus for the farthest reasonable slug shot in 3 Gun? 100 yards? More? Less? 12 MOA? More? Less? I see plenty of BC sized slug plates at 50 yards the average shooter still can't hit, so what do you all think? What is reasonable and unreasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 80 yds is reasonable for farthest. PanAm Shotgun Match had 100 yd. paper slug targets, up hill, was ok for that match. 100 yds, aim at head, hit body. 80 yds aim high. Everything 75 yds and in is usually aim at and hit. This is for Remington Reduced Recoil 1 oz. slugs, approximately 1150 fps. Not sure how big BC size targets are. The info above is for IPSC Classic targets. (The ones without heads) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Most of the ones I've shot, and we will most likely do the same at our matches. A 30x40" at 100yds, I can still get hits the majority of the time on that target at 175-200yds. As far as pattern I haven't really checked at 100, but at 50 I can have 3 hits within a 3" circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Am I shooting an M2, SLP, or a Win1300 with a single gold bead? (Sarcasm a little bit there) I typically don't have much problem with slugs. I missed a few at RM3G2013, sniper prone slugs at over 100 yards, but had not missed any for a few years prior nor since. In 2012, they had slugs over 100 yards on about 10" gongs...lots of misses. I loaded 2 for every slug target that year and hit every one on the first shot...oh well, I wasted like $15 of slugs I did not need. The smallest slug target I have ever used at Novekse is 18" round. This year, you can shoot slugs at 60 yards on 18x24 gongs as an option, but will be required to shoot slugs on full size cardboard Metrics to about 30 yards. If you take ten 50% shooters and give them one shot, no timer, at least 6 or 7 should be able to hit it or it is too difficult, IMHO. Want to push the top guys, give them two positions to shoot it from, one at 60 and one at 100, make it a risk-reward shot for the top guys if you want. Yeah, I know slugs can be pushed further, and I have shot stuff out to 300 yards with slugs, but most of our competitors are using low recoil slugs and some of the platforms are not capable of better than about 6" or so out at 100 yards. If we say 1MOA rifles are good, and we use 4MOA targets, then by the same logic, we should be using 24MOA for slug targets.... This is supposed to be fun, and a shooting match. When MDs stretch stuff out too far, all they do is penalize the bread and butter shooter and create undue displeasure. The top guys are still going to win. I don't care how clever a MD thinks they are, one of the top guys is still going to set the curve. 12-18" targets at 30 to 80 yards seems to be reasonable for the mid level shooter. More than that, not very practical or reasonable. I'd love to see a 30 slug stage in the 3Gun Nation Pro Series, from 5 to 150 yards and let the Pros "slug" it out...heck I might even record that for further review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Full size USPSA steel out to 100yds, B/C steel out to 60yds or so, gongs out to 75yds or so... That's mostly what I have seen at matches and I don't have a problem with that. Mostly I see people missing who just have no clue where their slugs are going, anyway. Those farther targets mostly serve to expose the folks who don't take zeroing their slugs as seriously as they do zeroing their rifle. I think Mark's measure (6 or 7 out of 10 50% shooters can make the shot with no time pressure) seems like a pretty good guideline to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Mark, good point on the comparison to rifle shooting! If the average 3 gun shotgun is capable of 6 MOA benched then yeah, I guess a 4x that mechanical accuracy would mean a 24 MOA target would be appropriate. A 24 inch target at 100 yards, would be a 12 inch target at 50 yards, would be a 6 inch target at 25 yards - equivalently sized to an IPSC headshot? Those all sound reasonable to me but hard shots for most people, maybe on the edge of too tight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) A 24 inch target at 100 yards, would be a 12 inch target at 50 yards, would be a 6 inch target at 25 yards - equivalently sized to an IPSC headshot? Those all sound reasonable to me but hard shots for most people, maybe on the edge of too tight? That sounds about right to be the edge of reasonable. While they were "choice" targets, we had some full sized Metric targets out at about 30 yards at the match on Saturday...there were misses...in fact some people missed some they shot at like 5 yards with slugs. Edited July 7, 2014 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 For me 20 yards at a 10' yes Foot square would be about right. Hate slugs!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 In a shotgun only match 100 MAX!!! At full size paper or steel targets. (feel that is still too far) In a 3 gun match...Damn Sam! I HAVE a carbine with me, let me use the right tool for the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 In a 3 gun match...Damn Sam! I HAVE a carbine with me, let me use the right tool for the job! Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 The above info is about right, full size target at 100 should be MAX, and 4" clay at 15-20. with everything else brought to scale for whatever distance. Basically if you use the average front bead on a shotgun and make the target so that it is the same size relationship to the target you should be spot on!!! As Elmer Keith once said, if its smaller than your front sight then you need to get closer. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 After shooting another match this weekend, it reinforces bigger is better. I watched half the shooters miss BC slug steel at 50 yards. So as a bare minimum 24 inches at 100 yards could work..? But I'd rather have that 24 inch target at 50 yards, with a 48 inch target at 100. You're right Trapr, front sight size is a good way to tell when something is too far away! I wish there were some standards on this stuff. How big is the sport of 3 Gun going to get before all the 20 year veteran shooters & match directors have a meeting of the minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I wish there were some standards on this stuff. How big is the sport of 3 Gun going to get before all the 20 year veteran shooters & match directors have a meeting of the minds? With so many differing opinions there never will be a general standard, as there is an audience for non-standard stuff. For example, silly standards is exactly the reason I'm never going to attempt an IDPA DMG match. As long as there are grumpy guys like me around that dont like standards and prefer matches to have their own flavors, there will always be non-standard matches around. 100y seems reasonable for slugs though. In a shotgun only match 100 MAX!!! At full size paper or steel targets. (feel that is still too far) In a 3 gun match...Damn Sam! I HAVE a carbine with me, let me use the right tool for the job! Nothing stopping you from building stages where you can choose between shooting rifle or slugs on the 100y targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Check out stage 9 of the Noveske match...slugs at 60 or rifle at 90...your choice, big targets too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 But no one would ever choose shotgun over rifle if given as choice unless you didn't need to go to the rifle at Ali on a particular stage on you had to gp out on your way to see the targets with the rifle. I agree we think Pat, let's use the right tool for the right job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) But no one would ever choose shotgun over rifle if given as choice unless you didn't need to go to the rifle at Ali on a particular stage on you had to gp out on your way to see the targets with the rifle. I agree we think Pat, let's use the right tool for the right job. It would largely depend on your division and stage design. There are still a few of us that shoot Open where the choice would be harder. Being allowed to freely pick the right tool for the right job would be awesome though, as I'd probably choose rifle over pistol on pretty much all stages. Edited July 21, 2014 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 But no one would ever choose shotgun over rifle if given as choice unless you didn't need to go to the rifle at Ali on a particular stage on you had to gp out on your way to see the targets with the rifle. I agree we think Pat, let's use the right tool for the right job. I am sure many people will choose to shoot the slugs over the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) In our July club match I designed a stage with 8 buckshot plates followed by 4 slug plates - distances to the slug plates ranged from ~50 yards to ~125 yards. Some struggled, most got there in the end. My son (smart arse that he is) went one-for-one on the slug shots using his VM Tactical with a home-made rear ghost ring. It is stage 4 in the video below... Edited July 22, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Tease. It is a private vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 With so many differing opinions there never will be a general standard, as there is an audience for non-standard stuff. For example, silly standards is exactly the reason I'm never going to attempt an IDPA DMG match. As long as there are grumpy guys like me around that dont like standards and prefer matches to have their own flavors, there will always be non-standard matches around. 100y seems reasonable for slugs though. I'm just looking to have something that sets reasonable expectations of shooters for matches and training. I'm big into training & trying to help other shooters. I'd like to confidently tell shooters "this is what you need to train for", like practicing slug shooting at X distance on a Y sized target from port arms & low ready because that's what is commonly at competitions. And then the same goes for the other disciplines of 3 gun. Then when people go to matches they'll know they're adequately prepared if they've done X Y Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Slug at 60 or rifle at 90? Without seeing the course of fire layout, I'd probably pick the rifle 10 of 10 times. But giving shooters that option is a good thing because it allows people to play to their strengths. Personally, inside 25 yards I'd prefer to shoot everything with a pistol, and beyond 25 yards I'd prefer to shoot everything with a rifle. Papers, knock down steel, slug targets, long range, whatever - I think I'm just that much faster & comfortable with a pistol & carbine than a shotgun. That would pretty much take care of everything except the clay targets but then it turns into "2 Gun with a shotgun" instead of 3 Gun. So I can see why some match directors force people to use certain guns on certain targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I could easily see myself picking slugs at 60yds, assuming it saved me something other than the just the actual time to pull the trigger on the 90 yard rifle shots—like, say, you could blow right past the 90yd shooting position and you were going to have to stop at the 60yd position for other shotgun stuff. Then again, I like slugs. Any stage where I am rewarded for using a shotgun like a big, slow, iron sighted rifle generally works well for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 For sure a rifle is better than shotgun slugs at pretty much everything (except maybe messing up cars and grizzly bears). The point about slugs is that they give you the ability to reach out beyond shot range (50yds+) when the ONLY gun you have in your hands is a shotgun. Like the saying goes "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". For this reason, pretty much any distance is reasonable provided it is the same for everyone. Certainly over 100yds the shot is VERY challenging, but who does not love a challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Full size IPSC at 100 B/C zone at 75 Clay pigeon at 25. I'm looking at you JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) For sure a rifle is better than shotgun slugs at pretty much everything (except maybe messing up cars and grizzly bears). The point about slugs is that they give you the ability to reach out beyond shot range (50yds+) when the ONLY gun you have in your hands is a shotgun. Like the saying goes "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". For this reason, pretty much any distance is reasonable provided it is the same for everyone. Certainly over 100yds the shot is VERY challenging, but who does not love a challenge? Maybe I don't understand what you're saying? Are you saying no limit on distance is reasonable? (not judging, just want to clarify) Edited July 22, 2014 by Moltke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now