TDean Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Whatever decisions are made, the fact that 1911's are single action should NOT be a deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I vote no, but like the idea of making L-10 a single stack only division. Go ahead and start flaming me now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I'm not crazy about it but I could live with it if L10 was a SS only deal, and maybe raise the mag cap in production to 15 as long as its kept to minor only. But NO 1911s or other SA pistols in productions. NO, NONE, NOT EVEN ONE 1911 IN PRODUCTION.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 If you're going to add anything to the approved list in Production, why not a Browning Hi-Power? Single-stack 1911s already have two classes that they can compete in. Why is another needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I vote no, but like the idea of making L-10 a single stack only division. Go ahead and start flaming me now! Moderator note.: Let's keep this thread on the 'SS-in-Prod' topic. There is another one for L10 changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Leave Production alone. Can't we have some rules stability for once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 No. The only change to Production should be a higher mag cap. 15 rounds anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 No.The only change to Production should be a higher mag cap. 15 rounds anyone? Sorry, then it becomes about capacity. That leaves guns out that are now legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Leave production alone. I shoot in all 5 divisions, there is a reason that we have divisions. It is to give different guns a place to fit in. At our club, we have people in all 5 shooting regularly. We provide the offical scores AND the unoffical scores so that everyone gets a chance to see where they are against the other divisions. If we were to allow 1911 pistols into Production, I think that all you'd see is 1911's at the top. We have Limited, and L-10. On that subject leave L-10 alone. For those that say that they want SA guns in production so that the venerable Browning HP has a place, I say, it already does, Limited or L-10 shooting minor. If you shoot all A's faster than anyone else, you win. What's the problem? Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 1911's have no business in production, just like any other single action trigger gun. Oops, maybe we already goofed there and ruined that argument. Better sense is to make L10 a SS division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 No.The only change to Production should be a higher mag cap. 15 rounds anyone? I totally agree with that. Production would be more fun for me if you didn't have to constantly reload! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Leave Production alone! Don't change the capacity restriction. Right nw just about any DA gun can run in Production. Change the capacity and all of a sudden, you are looking at a 9mm divison. As it stands, I can shoot a DA .45, change the capcity to 15 and that is likely to go away. Don't like to reload, then shoot Limited. That argument makes as much sense as allowing a 170 stick in Limited because you don't like to reload. We have 5 divisions, they are not perfect, but they are darn close. We need to have stability in the main rule set and we need to clean up some of the goofs. Then we need to keep our fingers out of the pie and play the game. Leave the divisions alone. You can shoot anything you want to (just about) in Open, Limited and limited-10 allow a very wide range of equipment, Production is a low-cost place to shoot and is a very competitive place. Revolver is there, I think that hte limit to 6 rounds fired, while it angered some was wise. It created a level playing field. About the only thing that USPSA misses is Open Revolver and maybe Open-10 for places like Hiwaii and California. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushy2112 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I agree that SS should not be in production but I think the 10 round limit has to go. Production to me, means what the gun is sold with. If I buy a G-17 and it comes with 17 round mags, I should be able to load 17 rounds. Sorry for you who live on the wrong side of the Deleware River. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 No.The only change to Production should be a higher mag cap. 15 rounds anyone? Sorry, then it becomes about capacity. That leaves guns out that are now legal. But see, that doesn't bother me. If I think another gun will give me an advantage, I'll sell what I have and buy the better one. I'm not married to the thing, it's just a gun. Please don't give me the "the new guys won't be competitive", because most of the time they aren't anyway. What 9mm won't give you 15+1? If you have a .40 or a .45, can't fit 15? Buy something that will. That's the way I feel, I know I'm in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 George, I get that doesn't bother you. And I see a number of production shooters switching guns over the course of a few years. But some production shooters like shooting a 13 round .45 or a 15 round .40/.357 Sig AND being competitive at the same time. The mag cap limit lets a lot of guns play on a level field that otherwise would a slight to significant capacity advantage. I'd certainly like to retain the option to switching to another gun without having to make a switch everytime somebody ups the available capacity by a round or two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 George,I get that doesn't bother you. And I see a number of production shooters switching guns over the course of a few years. But some production shooters like shooting a 13 round .45 or a 15 round .40/.357 Sig AND being competitive at the same time. The mag cap limit lets a lot of guns play on a level field that otherwise would a slight to significant capacity advantage. I'd certainly like to retain the option to switching to another gun without having to make a switch everytime somebody ups the available capacity by a round or two.... Yes, that's fine, I understand the reasons. It's not a deal breaker for me, I'll still shoot Production. But... Something to think about... We do have Limited 10 for those that want to use 10rd .45's and .40's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 George,I get that doesn't bother you. And I see a number of production shooters switching guns over the course of a few years. But some production shooters like shooting a 13 round .45 or a 15 round .40/.357 Sig AND being competitive at the same time. The mag cap limit lets a lot of guns play on a level field that otherwise would a slight to significant capacity advantage. I'd certainly like to retain the option to switching to another gun without having to make a switch everytime somebody ups the available capacity by a round or two.... Yes, that's fine, I understand the reasons. It's not a deal breaker for me, I'll still shoot Production. But... Something to think about... We do have Limited 10 for those that want to use 10rd .45's and .40's... That's true --- if they want to take a DA Beretta or Sig and go head to head with a 1911.... I like shooting a 1911 --- and think it's cool that I can play in three divisions with one. But unless we go nuts creating more divisions, I'd like to have one where the greatest number of non-1911s can compete..... ....and I get that for you it's not the ideal situation, and I see the appeal there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et45 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 No SS in Prod. But please allow the use of the standard cap mags.If there are worrys that Glock 17,34s will take over then if we must at least make the limit 15 rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 with all due respect what will an additional 5 rounds in a mag get you? Now you might have to reload in the MIDDLE of a target array instead of reloading BEFORE you engage the next target array? You really won't make up much ground unless your mags hold between 18 and 20 rounds of ammo. Just observe how shooters in Open and Limited Division approach shooting a stage. Besides, they'd give just about anything to squeeze an extra round or two into mags that already hold over 20 rounds. I simply can not see why we should tip a working Division on its head for an additional 5 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 with all due respect what will an additional 5 rounds in a mag get you? Now you might have to reload in the MIDDLE of a target array instead of reloading BEFORE you engage the next target array? You really won't make up much ground unless your mags hold between 18 and 20 rounds of ammo. Just observe how shooters in Open and Limited Division approach shooting a stage. Besides, they'd give just about anything to squeeze an extra round or two into mags that already hold over 20 rounds. I simply can not see why we should tip a working Division on its head for an additional 5 rounds. Oh, please, tip a Division on it's head? What's the most popular caliber in Production? 9X19 How many 9X19 chambered handguns on the market, that are popular, won't hold 15rds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I mean no harm or ill will. It doesn't matter what's most popular. What does matter is that everyone be able to shoot in Production Division without a capacity handicap. Under the current USPSA Production Division rules...they can and they don't have to shelve already owned guns to do so. Should we as a shooting sport render every gun not a 9x19 ( the ones that have the greatest "factory" magazine capacity) uncompetitive therefore cause some of the membership to drop out of the Division or purchase new guns to replace perfectly good ones they already own? If so...call or write your A.D. or the USPSA President. See what they think then be kind enough to write back with their response. I know where the A7 Director stands on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 What's the most popular caliber in Production? 9X19How many 9X19 chambered handguns on the market, that are popular, won't hold 15rds? George, For the last year plus, I've seen a number of people try and abandon the 147 gr. powderpuff 9x19 load for an even puffier 180 gr. .40 load in Production. 9x19 might still be the king of the hill --- but it might not always be...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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