logiztix Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Here are some pics of the difference between an almost stock forearm and retainer compared to a shaved forearm and the Competition Forearm Retainer Yeah, that makes a BIG difference in getting rid of the 'speed bump', doesn't it? Did you have to adjust the part at all? What I can see of your bench looks almost identical to mine, except I have a Glock schematic mat on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseImage Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) No adjustment, part fit perfectly right out of the bag! I didn't have issues with twin loads before but they are even easier now. As for quads, couldn't even do them before. Here are the benches too [emoji2] Edited February 6, 2015 by IntenseImage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCK Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What is the cost of the Competition Forearm Retainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) No adjustment, part fit perfectly right out of the bag! I didn't have issues with twin loads before but they are even easier now. As for quads, couldn't even do them before. Excellent! It seemed like we had the initial height dialed to work well with all five 930s that we had accessible. Good to hear it was ready to go without adjustment in yours as well. I will fully admit to being a die-hard, shell caddy loving, weak hand (which is really my strong hand , shhhh) shotgun reloader. That said, in showing my wife the new way the cool kids are doing it I was able to keep up with my caddy method in only a couple of hours with an ACTUAL weak hand loading using Taccom's Double-Dueces. My wife even had a podium finish in a local shotgun match with twins loading from a 6UP Taccom after only a few nights worth of practice. It's much easier to undo 5 years of weak-hand loading practice with a Mossberg now using that setup. Edited February 8, 2015 by logiztix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 What is the cost of the Competition Forearm Retainer? The polymer one is $22.95, while the upcoming alloy version will be $29.95 and is designed for a bit more custom fitting to your specific loading port work. That said, it won't require the taper of the polymer one if you are using the weak hand loading method with it. They aren't directly linked from our site anywhere yet, but here's a link to the actual page that will be in a few days: http://www.oregun.com/OR3GUN/about_or3gun_retainer.htm The polymer version is what is shown in IntenseImage's pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDRODA396 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) edited. Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a polymer one so I can see what they are all about! Edited February 8, 2015 by CDRODA396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 There are a few in stock now, with more on the way that should be available about the same timeline as the alloy ones. You're good to go. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseImage Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Everyone claims the VM is soo easy to quad load ... well, I got my hands on one this weekend and couldnt load it nearly as well as my JM with the CFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBCooper Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 LOGIZTIX, Sorry to digress back to the MST, but is there a difference in the function of the Competition version and the Multi-use version? I recently purchased the JM Pro and then started reading about all the issues with FTE with it. I was starting to get buyers remorse until I came across this thread in a google search. I would like to get the Multi-use version due to it being OEM weight, but want to be able to use the Federal bulk packs sold at the big box stores. Is the function the same between the two are do I need to purchase the competition version in order to cycle the lower power ammo? Thanks in advance. DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The Multi-Use will work just fine with the 1200 FPS Federal & Winchester bulk packs, especially in a JM Pro with a 24" barrel. It will also let you run anything up through the heaviest slugs and magnum buckshot loads without issue. The blue Competition version (which is the original), really wasn't envisioned in the first place for continual battering from heavy slugs and magnum buckshot. While it would take it anything we threw at it in our testing, the tradeoff is that the Competition version will reliably cycle even the 1145s in nearly all 930s, including the shorter barreled ones like the SPX. Some have even had good results with a 980 FPS cowboy loads. That said, you will never get steel to go down with one and the gun has to be an otherwise flawless specimen from the factory for 980 FPS loads to be reliable. The Multi-Use is really the best all-around version if you ever plan to run it for heavier duty applications in addition to competition. Unless you plan on running your 930 exclusively for competition and plan to game those all clay stages with cowboy loads, there is no down side to getting the Multi-Use version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Hey "LOGIZTIX": I bought an MST when you first offered them. Bought 2 actually. Lost this thread & just came back to it. As I said, I have the initial "blue" version - now named the "Competition" version. I did buy it for competition BUT also to make my 22" JM Pro one of my SHTF pieces. Are you now telling me if I am going to shoot heavy loads (slugs, 00 Buck thru #4 Buck) that I can't be sure it will stand up to the punishment? ...not what you intimated w/ the initial offering. If you look back thru the posts you'll notice that I became a big proponent of your product. As of today I'm not so sure. I asked you if it would stand up to punishment & was assured it would. Ok so now I ask you straight-out again: will the blue "Competition" MST stand up to the punishment of heavy loads? ...lots of heavy loads? What's the answer here? Yes or no? I CAN"T have a piece that is not 100% reliable in all situations & that is pretty much what you advertised, but are not saying that now...& don't give me the "100%-thing" back in my face. I know nothing is 100%, but you know EXACTLY what I'm asking. Edited February 11, 2015 by stinsonbeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 We've put the blue one through the ringer with cases of everything from bulk bird shot through magnum slugs and turkey loads with no issues. While designed and marketed from the beginning as a competition part for cycling the lighter loads that give 3-gunners fits in 930s, the original has proven good to go with anything we throw at it. There was no reason to change a thing. That said, when we DID decide to make a change by adding a teflon finish and bringing it to full OEM weight for an additional margin of robustness for the 935 magnum platform, we wanted to keep the original lighter weight version available because of its proven success in operating lighter loads than the 930 was ever reliable with before. One of the other questions we would get was if the part was available in a more neutral color. We took the opportunity to accommodate this request at the same time. So, now we have two versions. They will both operate under adverse weather with the full variety of common loads. They are each simply biased toward the two extremes of shells. No issues with what you're running. Aside from the teflon finish and a refinement of our machining processes, there is exactly 0.008" worth of difference in wall thickness between the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Will the electric blue one make me go faster? I've been following this thread with great interest to get into the 930 platform's head (so to speak), and I'm slowly putting together my wishlist. As soon as I actually clean it I suppose I'll learn what the big deal with the spacer is. But, I need to bevel my forend and get a welded lifter first. Thanks for the detailed writeups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Will the electric blue one make me go faster? I've been following this thread with great interest to get into the 930 platform's head (so to speak), and I'm slowly putting together my wishlist. As soon as I actually clean it I suppose I'll learn what the big deal with the spacer is. But, I need to bevel my forend and get a welded lifter first. Thanks for the detailed writeups. I can't pull the trigger fast enough to outrun a stock 930, so I can't tell you that. High speed video showed that the gas system cycled a bit faster with the Marine Blue one than OEM, but even with Jerry Miculek's trigger finger on it we may never know what the limits of the 930 are. I think the whole combo should be faster if it matches your shirt. At least that's the best correlation I can find from years of watching the pros shoot. It HAS to be the shirt. There's lots of great threads here on 930 forend and loading port work. Yeah, the lifter is priority one on a 930 if you're attached to your thumb. Edited February 11, 2015 by logiztix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuflehundon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I have the Marine Spacer in my gun. I have been told by many that I have a very fast trigger finger. Some have said I was about as fast as Jerry. (to bad I don't have his other skills to go with it) I have never out run the gun. I have outrun my eyes and shot faster than I could get good hits, but that's due to my skill level, not the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBCooper Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 LOGIZTIX While my intent is not to run any Cowboy loads, I would like for my JM to run anything that I feed it reliably. I intend to run mostly the low power bulk packs due to economics, but I still want to ensure that when I run the high power buck and slugs that my shotgun doesn't fail. Like stinsonbeach, I will also use it for HD as well as 3-Gun. I have the 22" version so which would ensure it runs the most reliable with the greatest durability? DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Honestly, I would probably have the same problem trying to choose. I would spend days going over the subtleties and probably end up buying both. Ask me about my Taran Tactical base pad collection and my power factor color code sometime. This is why I have many Glocks that are very similar, but different for the specific task and why I even have different recoil spring assemblies for assured reliability with competition loads and home defense loads. This tinge of OCD *may* be a contributor to how we BOTH ended up with this decision today. IF you made me choose, (but, you can't because I have the compete collection,) when OVERbuilt for the task is an available option to built for the task, that's the one I want. With the limited number of 930s we have for testing, the Multi-Use would cycle anything the Competition version did in 3 JM Pros, 3 SPXs and a Turkey gun. None of ours (with either MST) would 100% cycle the 980 FPS cowboy loads that others have had success with. ALL of them would cycle the 1145 and 1200 with either MST. Those that have had both parts in their hand would probably choose the Multi-Use because that Teflon finish is worth the difference to them. For me, if there were a dark gray Glock on the counter and a blue one, the process of selection we be even easier. Of course, if it were only the recoil spring assembly that were blue, I would find that easier to remember which was for competition, because as I said I would have both. Since they aren't offered currently in a discounted 2-pack, I would get the Multi-Use, put it in my gun and forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm looking to buy a 3-gun shotgun soon and I really like the JM Pro but it seems like reliability has plagued many. Was this with the first runs and has it improved since? I'm not a big DIY person with the shotgun platform but I'm trying to find something positive to make me pull the trigger on buying a JM pro or either go the Stoeger route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuflehundon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm looking to buy a 3-gun shotgun soon and I really like the JM Pro but it seems like reliability has plagued many. Was this with the first runs and has it improved since? I'm not a big DIY person with the shotgun platform but I'm trying to find something positive to make me pull the trigger on buying a JM pro or either go the Stoeger route I can tell you they have changed a few things on the gun. Shooting friend had issues with his from the very beginning. Mossberg sent him a lot of replacement parts. I can tell you that his trigger group was different that the replacement, and so was the carrier latch. The differences were very subtle, and you had to have the parts side by side to even notice. So yes they have made changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Will the electric blue one make me go faster? I've been following this thread with great interest to get into the 930 platform's head (so to speak), and I'm slowly putting together my wishlist. As soon as I actually clean it I suppose I'll learn what the big deal with the spacer is. But, I need to bevel my forend and get a welded lifter first. Thanks for the detailed writeups. I can't pull the trigger fast enough to outrun a stock 930, so I can't tell you that. I can barely pull the trigger fast enough to outrun a Supernova. I just figured blue makes you go fast. So far the factory gun hasn't complained, even without cleaning, but the big reliability differences in my handguns and rifles seem to manifest themselves around 500-1,000 round intervals, or about 4 club matches. I imagine a similar phenomenon occurs with shotguns -- all of them can handle 100 rounds in a row unless the factory's done something wrong, and many of them can handle a solid 500 round session, but what happens when you shoot, leave it in the dust between stages, take it home, wait a week, then do it all again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) I'm looking to buy a 3-gun shotgun soon and I really like the JM Pro but it seems like reliability has plagued many. Was this with the first runs and has it improved since? I'm not a big DIY person with the shotgun platform but I'm trying to find something positive to make me pull the trigger on buying a JM pro or either go the Stoeger route Buy it - JM Pro. Why? Cheap. Almost indestructible, once you get it going. Plenty of help - here & other forums. Quick clean it. Replace the mag spring when you put on the extension. Replace the follower w/ one w/ a rat-tail. Replace the spacer w/ your choice of MST's. Shoot the crap outta' it! You won't out-run it. . . . tho I'm not very happy w/ answers from "Logistix" has given, I do realize that that answer probably is "on down the road" after someone has worked the MST thru about >10,000 rds. It'll be interesting to see how the original holds up. I'm tempted to buy the new one, but ain't all that happy about it because I thought once I had the "blue" one, my troubles were over. In all honesty, the concept is terrific. My only concern is: will it take the abuse. "...time reveals all, Grasshopper." Edited February 11, 2015 by stinsonbeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 For grins, I did the quick math on 10,000 rounds (which is an ambitious goal for a problem free Mossberg 930) and came up with the following results: 10,000 rounds of (WalMart) Winchester Universal = $2,677 = 4.25 Mossberg JM Pros (on sale @ Cabelas) 10,000 rounds of (Cabelas) Winchester AA Super-Handicap = $3,799 = 6 Mossberg JM Pros (on sale @ Cabelas) 10,000 rounds of (Bi-Mart) Remington Buckshot = $7,998 = 12.75 Mossberg JM Pros (on sale @ Cabelas) If a JM Pro manages to survive 5,000 rounds of any type without issue, you should expect to completely go through the gas and recoil systems for preventative maintenance at that interval anyway, replacing at least the following wear items: Magazine Tube = $25.00 Piston Assembly = $35.95 Recoil Spring= $12.00 +/- Pusher Assembly = $20 +/- Pusher Spring = $12 +/- Recoil Spring= $10 +/- (I know the first 2 parts because they have been replaced at less than half the 5,000 round intervals in 2 of the 930s in my possession. The rest are guesses based upon the cost of other Mossberg parts replaced in other models and having watched too much of "The Price is Right" as a child.) Point is, at 5,000 rounds you have spent between 2 and 6 times the original cost of the gun on ammo and should expect to budget for replacement of wear items to the tune of at least $115 on parts. If those items aren't replaced you run the risk of damaging other items like the bolt and carrier or perhaps the receiver itself. You will also have issues because your rings are worn along with their interface to the magazine tube. So, at 5,000 rounds you should be spending about 20% of the price of a new gun on refurbishing the wear items on your old one. In 10,000 rounds you will have to spend 40% of the price of a new JM Pro on wear items. Closer to reality (from my own experiences), you will likely be paying the cost of replacing the ENTIRE gun in wear items well before the time you get to 10,000 rounds. You will also have already spent the equivalent of 4 to 12 times the cost of a single JM Pro on ammo if it makes it there. My point? Inspect your MST along with everything else when you clean it. Know that we had to reduce the overall weight (by reducing wall thickness) down to an unbelievable 40% of the Competition version's finished weight to get a non-anodized version of the part to fail with heavy loads in our R&D process. Anodizing adds strength, as does the different chosen alloy used for the finished part. Also know that if your MST ever does fail it will give you plenty of warning, based on the way it failed as a much, MUCH thinner test version. Also know that the MST will cost less than 0.625% of the total operating cost for a 10,000 round run with a single Mossberg 930 JM Pro. That's not a bad rate for insurance, even if you have to buy another 'policy' somewhere along the way. The best news is that if your MST indeed DOES exhibit signs of failure, we will be sending you a new one at no charge once the other one is in our hands for our museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Wow. I don't have a 930 but after all the stink stinsonbeach made about the new MST being superior to the old but also superior MST I had to Google this thing to see what the fuss was about. $45-50 dollars! A weekend practice worth of ammo perhaps! I've never seen a 930 go more than 3000 rounds without a total overhaul after a catastrophic failure or three. I'd say $45 is the least of your worries if you really shoot the hell out of these guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 "logiztix": you have solved all my issues & being a math-guy I can now sleep at night. I'll be buying one of the new MST's forthwith!!! Back in the "Big Fan Club"... "Tony...": my "stink" was based on getting back to the thread & seeing that a new & improved model was offered. Just felt I was a chump for buying early & I needed a part that was proven, not so much for competition - which I am still convinced the "blue" one fits the bill - but for one that wouldn't let me down in a SHFT scenario. As you can see from above all my fears have been put to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 ps "logiztix" what is the link to your site again? Gotta' get my new MST!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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