StealthyBlagga Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 With compact red dot optics getting smaller and more reliable, and with their growing proliferation into the personal defense world, is it time to bring back Modified Division? Maybe a hybrid Production/Open division catering to the folks who's eyes aren't up to shooting irons any more, but who don't have the budget for a full-blown, major-caliber Open race gun? (Yes, I realize Modified was never a USPSA division... should it be now?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 something like this? http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189723&page=2&hl=%2Bproduction+%2Boptics#entry2128018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) something like this? http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189723&page=2&hl=%2Bproduction+%2Boptics#entry2128018 Yup. Thanks - don't know how I missed that thread... must not be spending enough time here Edited May 15, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2rideWV Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Forgive me for opening this back up, but didn't there used to be a division like this in IPSC? The guns looked like Production guns with tiny red dot optics? They did away with the division a year or two ago because of low participation? As far as it goes, I'm seeing a couple of guys at local matches take modified Glocks or M&P's with a small optics and extended magazines and shoot in Open for the fun of it. I think these are guns built for tactical purposes or for actual carry use, and these guys would have built them anyway. I think it is the wave of the future, and we will eventually see more carry guns with optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax3D Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Actually, the IPSC Modified guns tended to be CZ or 2011 guns that were run without a compensator, and were heavily "trimmed" in order to fit into a box.Like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 There's another thread here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Pledger Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Actually, the IPSC Modified guns tended to be CZ or 2011 guns that were run without a compensator, and were heavily "trimmed" in order to fit into a box. Like this: And also cost just as much if not more than an open gun to build. Plus the load development, at most all you have is 3.5" of barrel to work with and trying to make Major and be reliable is a time consuming effort, but not insurmountable. JoJo and Johnny Lim made good Modified guns. Cheers .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 We have a class for that is called open. For the record I've checked and there is no "growing trend" towards ccw and red dots. If folks think there is that's great, but the facts don't bear that out. Actually there is a slight tend for the above mentioned combo. Problem is folks think a red dot is magic. If you can't see a red FO you probably can't see a red dot either. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck s Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I We have a class for that is called open. For the record I've checked and there is no "growing trend" towards ccw and red dots. If folks think there is that's great, but the facts don't bear that out. Actually there is a slight tend for the above mentioned combo. Problem is folks think a red dot is magic. If you can't see a red FO you probably can't see a red dot either. Just sayin. I think you may be missing the point of a red dot and how it is easier to shoot well with one for most older eyes folks. With a target focus, you do away with the need to focus on the front sight and back again to the target quickly. As we get older, this manipulation is more difficult since our lens does not accommodate well. There is nothing magic about a red dot and there is a learning curve, but it is shorter than irons for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Wait til your eyes hit 50, tell me if getting a decent sight picture (fiber or not) with irons AND seeing your target is easier than just a target focus with a red dot. Getting old sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Absolutely true, unfortunately all the young shooters on this forum have no frame of reference to understand what we are talking about ... They will in about 25 years ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 BTW, it doesn't suck to get old .... You just have to adapt and overcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 What's funny, a little, is that a budget friendly optics division (stock-ish gun, plus red dot), is probably more helpful for younger shooters without a lot of cash, but they can still see their sights w/o reading glasses, so they don't need it. Many older folks further along in their careers can maybe more easily afford a full open gun, even if all they really want is the production gun plus optics. Either way, they (we? 40-ish and older) are the ones that need it more, one way or another, because arms not long enough to focus close in w/o reading glasses anymore. I've been posting a little on support of production option, but this is probably last post. I've got a open gun, also had some ports put in a minor gun with optics (since it can only play open, why not?), so I'll just go shoot :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you have a Production with a dot you want to shoot, why not shoot it in Open? There's this idea you can't shoot competitively in Open without a $4k custom pistol. Granted, the dot and the mag capacity are a huge advantage over the other divisions, but the 'flatness' provided by the comp is an incremental advantage. The reality is that $4k doesn't necessarily buy you a flat shooting Open gun and the Open shooter with the flattest shooting gun doesn necessarily win the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 True, about the comp, but the person who has the mag capacity AND is shooting Major will have the advantage. Is the unsupported 9mm chamber of a Glock able to handle 9mm Major safely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Is the unsupported 9mm chamber of a Glock able to handle 9mm Major safely? I'm not a Glock guy, but you're not talking about shooting 9 Major without a comp are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Is the unsupported 9mm chamber of a Glock able to handle 9mm Major safely? I'm not a Glock guy, but you're not talking about shooting 9 Major without a comp are you? 'cause that wouldn't be any fun....... As far as chamber support goes, most folks go to aftermarket barrels when building Open division blasters for Major 9..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 If you have a Production with a dot you want to shoot, why not shoot it in Open? There's this idea you can't shoot competitively in Open without a $4k custom pistol. Granted, the dot and the mag capacity are a huge advantage over the other divisions, but the 'flatness' provided by the comp is an incremental advantage. The reality is that $4k doesn't necessarily buy you a flat shooting Open gun and the Open shooter with the flattest shooting gun doesn necessarily win the match. Being a CA person, a lot of those production guns will have 10 round mags, so that combined with major vs minor scoring makes is a little bit of a challenge. Soon I'll actually compare results - I'll do a few matches open with a real open/major gun, then a few with a red dot on a production gun, and I can see what the difference is for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 True, about the comp, but the person who has the mag capacity AND is shooting Major will have the advantage. Is the unsupported 9mm chamber of a Glock able to handle 9mm Major safely? Buy a threaded LW barrel and a comp for your glock and run 9 major($200 or less). Get 170mm mag and go play in open. It wont cost that much more then setting up something for PO. From the guys I see shoot open, if you gun doesn't jam you're in pretty good shape to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 From the guys I see shoot open, if you gun doesn't jam you're in pretty good shape to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickd1 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 if it wasn't for that little red dot i wouldn't be shooting today,i can't see why we can't have a division of say 9mm in minor with a red dot,and yes when you get older your eye sight goes and your arms are no longer long enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 True, about the comp, but the person who has the mag capacity AND is shooting Major will have the advantage. Is the unsupported 9mm chamber of a Glock able to handle 9mm Major safely? Buy a threaded LW barrel and a comp for your glock and run 9 major($200 or less). Get 170mm mag and go play in open. It wont cost that much more then setting up something for PO. From the guys I see shoot open, if you gun doesn't jam you're in pretty good shape to win. I understand that logic, but Glocks don't fit everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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