looking left and right after finishing stage

[Gary Stevens]

I have always thought that those who use a gun for a living, so to speak, are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings. Being on a range at a USPSA event is probably one of the safest places to be in todays time.

I had a fellow at the Single Stack Nationals last year who did the look over both shoulders before holstering exercise. I asked him if he observed all of the guys with .guns behind him, and he just sort of looked at me. I then said, and yet you didn't take cover. I then moved on to the next shooter.

The look on his face was priceless.

[Shadow]

I have always thought that those who use a gun for a living, so to speak, are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings. Being on a range at a USPSA event is probably one of the safest places to be in todays time.

I had a fellow at the Single Stack Nationals last year who did the look over both shoulders before holstering exercise. I asked him if he observed all of the guys with .guns behind him, and he just sort of looked at me. I then said, and yet you didn't take cover. I then moved on to the next shooter.

The look on his face was priceless.

You nailed it Gary!

Edited May 14, 2014 by Shadow

[Dkrad1935]

I just had to comment so I can show this video to a shooting buddy at work:)

[Dkrad1935]

If I ever want to leave a match early I am gonna do the Charlie's angels gun in the air 360. I might also drop my gun and pull another out for my reload. I really dig how he said he has dropped his gun 100 times. Haha. I am just giggling right now.

[idcastandblast]

Awesome video. Pretty sure our ROs would enjoy that DQ.

[outerlimits]

And the OP said it was a steel stage. LMAO. Like the term operator, just plain stupid.

[gose]

I do it after every stage, just to make sure there arent any IDPA guys sneaking up on me.

[whitedog]

The adrenaline dump that happens under fire would turn his slow tactical spin into a Tasmanian devil on acid. And the fact standing in one spot doing any reasses may remove you from the gene pool.

But Call of Duty is an awesome game.

[RangerTrace]

Its something they've been teaching in police academies and tactical pistol schools for years. Now instead of checking your "6" they're training them to check their 540 degree. Not really sure why people do it in a match..

[toothandnail]

I was wondering WHY all the snide/snobby comments. . . . .

Then I looked at the forum name

[frag316]

*sigh* No, no, no, folks.

There's a reason folks who have done tactical training do the look from side-to-side bit after they're done shooting.

When you're involved in a high-stress moment, it's very common to get tunnel vision. The training folks get to react to critical stress (that means "more than competition") often uses this technique to break the tunnel vision and reacquaint them with the environment around them.

While it's somewhat funny to say "I have always thought that those who use a gun for a living, so to speak, are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings," that really only works BEFORE the gunfight starts. When the dominoes start to fall toward a gunfight, you start to tunnel in on the closest, hottest threat and prepare to engage it. It's very easy to stay focused on that, so the drills in training emphasize breaking the target focus and getting your situational awareness back.

Folks who have shot USPSA/IPSC for awhile and are not military or LE (not "operators," but genuinely people who have had tactical training by rote) tend to laugh, because there's a mindset among them that no one ever focuses on a single target so much that they need to become re-aware of their surroundings. They also tend to think we do stuff like that because it looks "hard." That's not true. Most of the time, we do it because it's subconscious habit to do so.

So, for a post that really should have been a simple explanation and a throwaway, folks have generated two pages worth of snarky and snide commentary without basis in fact.

[alma]

*sigh* No, no, no, folks.

There's a reason folks who have done tactical training do the look from side-to-side bit after they're done shooting.

When you're involved in a high-stress moment, it's very common to get tunnel vision. The training folks get to react to critical stress (that means "more than competition") often uses this technique to break the tunnel vision and reacquaint them with the environment around them.

While it's somewhat funny to say "I have always thought that those who use a gun for a living, so to speak, are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings," that really only works BEFORE the gunfight starts. When the dominoes start to fall toward a gunfight, you start to tunnel in on the closest, hottest threat and prepare to engage it. It's very easy to stay focused on that, so the drills in training emphasize breaking the target focus and getting your situational awareness back.

Folks who have shot USPSA/IPSC for awhile and are not military or LE (not "operators," but genuinely people who have had tactical training by rote) tend to laugh, because there's a mindset among them that no one ever focuses on a single target so much that they need to become re-aware of their surroundings. They also tend to think we do stuff like that because it looks "hard." That's not true. Most of the time, we do it because it's subconscious habit to do so.

So, for a post that really should have been a simple explanation and a throwaway, folks have generated two pages worth of snarky and snide commentary without basis in fact.

I get the motivation but now a days the critical stress of a USPSA stage doesn't put me into the fight or flight like it used to.

Guess I should just be grateful that they aren't always yelling, "GUN!" at the beginning of each stage.

[Bryan 45]

I do a little search and assess after a stage before unloading and showing clear because I've left enough targets before that it pays to see them before I'm "finished." Of course, my search and assess usually looks more like I'm looking for my car keys or the TV remote than a threat.

[Dkrad1935]

How many times does a delta operator have to look left or right before it becomes so instinctual that he can't turn it off or doesn't even think about it?

Just curious cause the NY Reload guy has only done it 100 times and I doubt it's so burned in after 100 reps that he isn't consciously deciding to show off his delta prowess.

[RammerJammer]

*sigh* No, no, no, folks.

There's a reason folks who have done tactical training do the look from side-to-side bit after they're done shooting.

When you're involved in a high-stress moment, it's very common to get tunnel vision. The training folks get to react to critical stress (that means "more than competition") often uses this technique to break the tunnel vision and reacquaint them with the environment around them.

While it's somewhat funny to say "I have always thought that those who use a gun for a living, so to speak, are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings," that really only works BEFORE the gunfight starts. When the dominoes start to fall toward a gunfight, you start to tunnel in on the closest, hottest threat and prepare to engage it. It's very easy to stay focused on that, so the drills in training emphasize breaking the target focus and getting your situational awareness back.

Folks who have shot USPSA/IPSC for awhile and are not military or LE (not "operators," but genuinely people who have had tactical training by rote) tend to laugh, because there's a mindset among them that no one ever focuses on a single target so much that they need to become re-aware of their surroundings. They also tend to think we do stuff like that because it looks "hard." That's not true. Most of the time, we do it because it's subconscious habit to do so.

So, for a post that really should have been a simple explanation and a throwaway, folks have generated two pages worth of snarky and snide commentary without basis in fact

Its not a matter of training its all theatre. I know when I am shooting for work not to wait for a beep or ULSC as soon as I am done shooting I also know when shooting a stage the only reason to search and asses is to look like yeager.

[rishii]

You fight like you train

There was a shoot out in CA in the 70's were a dead police officer was found with empty brass in his pocket, apparently in the middle of a gun fight He took the time to catch his his empty brass in his hand as he reloaded his revolver, put it his pocket before completing

His reload. Kinda like a IDPA reload with retention.

During the investigation that followed it was discovered that is how they trained, rather than pick the brass up after they shot,

They would put the empties in their pocket first, then reload the gun

The sweep left and right is to break tunnel vision, to ingrain a habit to force you to look for another threat, yes we are shooting a competition, and competition is not training

But you fight like you train, if they are using the match to sharpen their skills, why would you mock them,not everyone who shoots a match are there to win, or make GM etc, if doing the visual sweep take a couple of extra second during unload and show clear

How badly does that affect you

[alma]

There was a shoot out in CA in the 70's were a dead police officer was found with empty brass in his pocket, apparently in the middle of a gun fight He took the time to catch his his empty brass in his hand as he reloaded his revolver, put it his pocket before completing

His reload. Kinda like a IDPA reload with retention.

Myth

http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/07/22/tactical-mythbusting-revolver-brass-in-the-pocket/

[alma]

You fight like you train

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by alma

[RammerJammer]

You fight like you train

There was a shoot out in CA in the 70's were a dead police officer was found with empty brass in his pocket, apparently in the middle of a gun fight He took the time to catch his his empty brass in his hand as he reloaded his revolver, put it his pocket before completing

His reload. Kinda like a IDPA reload with retention.

During the investigation that followed it was discovered that is how they trained, rather than pick the brass up after they shot,

They would put the empties in their pocket first, then reload the gun

The sweep left and right is to break tunnel vision, to ingrain a habit to force you to look for another threat, yes we are shooting a competition, and competition is not training

But you fight like you train, if they are using the match to sharpen their skills, why would you mock them,not everyone who shoots a match are there to win, or make GM etc, if doing the visual sweep take a couple of extra second during unload and show clear

How badly does that affect you

No He didn't:

http://americanhandgunner.com/new-info-on-newhall/

I still declare its theatre but if I am involved in a shooting and start trying to paste in my zombie like state I will post back.

[frag316]

I don't know why I bother to post these days. People just piss me off.

Look, you guys who are disparaging the folks who think they're "operators" are really no better than they are, because they disparage you to the same degree, but in reverse. If you have a guy who shoots more for training than for recreation, he's naturally going to default to that training and do a search and assess, because it's more natural for him to do that.

In a lot of ways, you're guilty of the same crime as the guys who say competitive shooting is detrimental to combat shooting.

Shooting is shooting, and who are any of us to judge the good or bad, except by whether they're safe and improve? If a guy wants to do a search and assess, what's the harm in that?

[RammerJammer]

I'll give you that. I think that fact that I have been involved with firearms and shooting for 10 years as a vocation and hate that aspect of it makes me wonder why people want to make believe all the time. USPSA is the most fun you can have legally in the states. "training" is awful. My feelings aren't hurt if you call me a gamer so I guess I will expect the same of them and continue to scoff.

[whitedog]

The guy in video was not checking anything.

I have absolutely no problem with a 360 check after an incident. I was trained to threat scan and occasionally it still happens. I was also trained to find secondary egress from a structure, I still always do that.

Bo Bo the trainer was doing the Operator Twist. Pointing yer firearm up, as he did, James Bond style is absolutely moronic. A firearm is brought up to target, not down. Eyes on threat. Sights on threat. NOT eyes on threat. Block vision with arms and firearm. Sights pass target. Raise gun.

Being trained to break tunnel vision and threat scan is 100% good. Being trained by a ballerina is not good. Hence why video is both funny, and scary.

[RangerTrace]

I don't know why I bother to post these days. People just piss me off.

Look, you guys who are disparaging the folks who think they're "operators" are really no better than they are, because they disparage you to the same degree, but in reverse. If you have a guy who shoots more for training than for recreation, he's naturally going to default to that training and do a search and assess, because it's more natural for him to do that.

In a lot of ways, you're guilty of the same crime as the guys who say competitive shooting is detrimental to combat shooting.

Shooting is shooting, and who are any of us to judge the good or bad, except by whether they're safe and improve? If a guy wants to do a search and assess, what's the harm in that?

Great point of view...

[Shadow]

I don't know why I bother to post these days. People just piss me off.

Look, you guys who are disparaging the folks who think they're "operators" are really no better than they are, because they disparage you to the same degree, but in reverse. If you have a guy who shoots more for training than for recreation, he's naturally going to default to that training and do a search and assess, because it's more natural for him to do that.

In a lot of ways, you're guilty of the same crime as the guys who say competitive shooting is detrimental to combat shooting.

Shooting is shooting, and who are any of us to judge the good or bad, except by whether they're safe and improve? If a guy wants to do a search and assess, what's the harm in that?

Great point of view...

And its great that USPSA has room for the differing points of view to enjoy shooting USPSA matches!

[konkapot]

I've worked at two high volume law enforcement training centers for a little bit now.

It is almost impossible........during the course of a 8-16 week program........to get students to routinely scan before they holster. Pleading, reminders, threats, promises, encouragement, etc etc still don't get them doing it habitually.

If motivated basic students don't make it a habit during a 2-4 month training program, it is very unlikely/uncommon that experienced cops will, truthfully, have made it a habit to scan/check 6/safety circle/checkpoints back to the holster before holstering.

No hate for the guys that truly do it out of habit, but my vote is many of them are posers.