Whatever you do...

[cam1]

I've also noticed the speed vs accuracy predicament. I have shot better hits on target no mikes or no shoots and was 20 to 30 seconds slower than the person who came in first. He on the other hand had 7 mikes and a couple of no shoots. Time is a huge factor in your score. My percentages were in the 90's and his were in the 70's. So it seems like you need to have an equally fast time even if it costs you from getting all your hits. I too am only a B shooter and new to the sport. I understand the formula pts - penalties/ time. Seems straight forward but skewed towards time.

[ktm300]

I think there is a disconnect between "trying" to go fast and being in a "hurry" and actually going fast. How many times have you had a great run that felt really slow and under control? You were not trying, you were not in a hurry but you had a great run. That is the idea.

[benos]

If my plan is good and I am comfortable before the buzzer, I do not worry if I'm relaxed or calm, I'm more worried about what's for lunch......

Although the rest of the info in Rob's post provides a clue as to the differences in our Temperament Types, that drops the hammer on it.

[caspian38]

Tell me the last match where someone placed in the top 10 by shooting all Alpha's?

To a point, speed is more important than accuracy. Misses are unacceptable but Nils managed to have a few and still win the SSN.

How can you not hurry or rush in a sport who's most important scored component is speed?

I'm just a lowly B shooter but if I took this advice, I'd still be a lowly C shooter. There is lots I don't know. But I know guys who win move and shoot very fast. And it seems to me you don't get faster without trying to get faster.

After alternating my focus back, and forth I have noticed a few interesting things...it's all in my head. Speed is not more important than accuraccy to little of either won't win a match. Like almost everything its balance.

Rushing in my mind is trying to beat a .5 par time when practicing draws. Try five and then back it off to a 1 second par time. I have all the time in the world to beat the 1 second par time. I have a smoother draw better sight picture it's on target ,and I'm waiting for the buzzer to sound the second tone. Is one draw faster than the other? One is better that's for sure.

There is no time diffrence between shooting an alpha, and shooting a delta. The diffrence is in what I'm willing to accept.

As a C shooter I needed more speed .as a B shooter I needed more control. If your running stages at match winning speeds ,but with too many mistakes this might be the perfect time for this advice.

When you look at match results the best shooters all have pretty close times and points. A few points or seconds is all it takes to win, and the most consistent shooter usually wins. At local matches it's not to hard to shave 5 seconds off a stage ,but if your shooting against good shooters you shouldn't be able to find big chunks of time. If I find five seconds I don't want to give it back becuse of mikes or low points.

Balance. ... And like TGO said " lunch " I highly recomend Dickey's BBQ pit it's not the best ,but it's always good. Nothing like gnawing on a rib bone after winning a match (very primal).

Edited May 9, 2014 by caspian38

[Candis]

I would bet $100 that someone at my next major match says, "Well, yeah, but Rob Leatham thinks about what's for lunch before he shoots, so that's what I'm doing these days, too."

We sometimes clutter our minds at critical points of a performance with conscious input which is not conducive to retaining the high level focus needed to execute. Most of this is pre-programmed before the buzzer goes off. Sometimes at the match, sometimes at the practice range.

This is applicable to everything. The struggle (my enormous struggle, anyway) is to clear the mind of the 'conscious input' when you're doing anything; which is to say to not think of anything while you're doing everything. Listening to the sound of each object as you set it down on a surface...

[TGO]

If my plan is good and I am comfortable before the buzzer, I do not worry if I'm relaxed or calm, I'm more worried about what's for lunch......

Although the rest of the info in Rob's post provides a clue as to the differences in our Temperament Types, that drops the hammer on it.

Amen!! I know it's fun to get caught up in how others do it, but every shooter has to learn their own truths, even though they are the same for everybody. Your perception of what you do and your emotional involvement, or "feel" may differ, but I believe you have to move the gun to the target, not let it go to the target. Same thing, just different belief what that thing is.

The reality is that at the upper levels, we all shoot fast. Different degrees of fast I admit, but it comes down to the hits most of the time. If you shoot at a speed that you never miss at, and are not getting what you want as far as finish or performance, then you are going to have to go faster..... That's easy enough to do, but as they say, you are gonna have to want it.

[TGO]

I would bet $100 that someone at my next major match says, "Well, yeah, but Rob Leatham thinks about what's for lunch before he shoots, so that's what I'm doing these days, too."

We sometimes clutter our minds at critical points of a performance with conscious input which is not conducive to retaining the high level focus needed to execute. Most of this is pre-programmed before the buzzer goes off. Sometimes at the match, sometimes at the practice range.

This is applicable to everything. The struggle (my enormous struggle, anyway) is to clear the mind of the 'conscious input' when you're doing anything; which is to say to not think of anything while you're doing everything. Listening to the sound of each object as you set it down on a surface...

Or hearing no sound whatsoever...... thereby putting yourself in a state where all input is pertinent to the task at hand. I just don't hear all those things!

I see the gun, the targets, and the props regardless of my mental state of mind. I'm not trying to be a deep thinker while shooting, I'm trying to be a great shooter. That's much, much easier. And much more conducive to a great score than being wise.

I've just found over all these years that it is much easier to learn to shoot well while nervous, than to try not to be nervous in the first place....

Different strokes.... but my record must indicate I'm not totally wrong... then again, I may be.....

[benos]

... but it comes down to the hits most of the time.

Do you remember, way back... We had finished a match In Colorado (can't remember which one). And they had a Vice Presidente set up for a fun match. Cost a buck a run to shoot it. Me and yo were going at it, back and forth. We both reached our max speed (LOHF - Limit of Human Function) - in the upper 4's. Neiher of us could physically shoot it any faster, so it came down to points. In the end, after a boatload of runs, you edged me out by one point. We both had the same time - maybe 4.7ish, but you were clean and I was down one point. That was a fun afternoon.

[TGO]

... but it comes down to the hits most of the time.

Do you remember, way back... We had finished a match In Colorado (can't remember which one). And they had a Vice Presidente set up for a fun match. Cost a buck a run to shoot it. Me and yo were going at it, back and forth. We both reached our max speed (LOHF - Limit of Human Function) - in the upper 4's. Neiher of us could physically shoot it any faster, so it came down to points. In the end, after a boatload of runs, you edged me out by one point. We both had the same time - maybe 4.7ish, but you were clean and I was down one point. That was a fun afternoon.

Had to be the Coors Challenge in Durango. Man those were the best of times. Remember when we were dry firing in the hotel room and the Sheriff's office knocked on the door and I figured it was one of our buddies so I swung the door open and jumped in the doorway like a frickin' Ninja!! How did I not go to jail?? I'm still mad at you for quitting me..... :-) Little gay Brokeback Mountain reference there..... I miss the matches some from then but I really miss the endless talk about shooting and our practice sessions. Very few of these readers would know that you always beat me in practice. Always. You Always could reach a place that I couldn't get to, time after time.

Those performances were more pure than we now see. Matches always had an element of entertainment to them. The results while important weren't usually worth much. We didn't have to deal with everyone looking for perfect doubles or reshoots. Most were there just to shoot because for their own reasons, they enjoyed it. I feel few of the "PRO'S" now have that same attitude. It's about getting a f****** shirt with a sponsor on it more than hitting the f****** targets fast.

Man I am old!!

[jriera]

... but it comes down to the hits most of the time.

Do you remember, way back... We had finished a match In Colorado (can't remember which one). And they had a Vice Presidente set up for a fun match. Cost a buck a run to shoot it. Me and yo were going at it, back and forth. We both reached our max speed (LOHF - Limit of Human Function) - in the upper 4's. Neiher of us could physically shoot it any faster, so it came down to points. In the end, after a boatload of runs, you edged me out by one point. We both had the same time - maybe 4.7ish, but you were clean and I was down one point. That was a fun afternoon.

Had to be the Coors Challenge in Durango. Man those were the best of times. Remember when we were dry firing in the hotel room and the Sheriff's office knocked on the door and I figured it was one of our buddies so I swung the door open and jumped in the doorway like a frickin' Ninja!! How did I not go to jail?? I'm still mad at you for quitting me..... :-) Little gay Brokeback Mountain reference there..... I miss the matches some from then but I really miss the endless talk about shooting and our practice sessions. Very few of these readers would know that you always beat me in practice. Always. You Always could reach a place that I couldn't get to, time after time.

Those performances were more pure than we now see. Matches always had an element of entertainment to them. The results while important weren't usually worth much. We didn't have to deal with everyone looking for perfect doubles or reshoots. Most were there just to shoot because for their own reasons, they enjoyed it. I feel few of the "PRO'S" now have that same attitude. It's about getting a f****** shirt with a sponsor on it more than hitting the f****** targets fast.

Man I am old!!

Amen

[benos]

That was the Coors Challenge. I'm getting old too - couldn't remember the name of that match for the life of me.

Indeed, those were the best of times. The "endless talk" was truly endless.

One more... Me and you drove to LA to shoot our first SWPL club match. The match was just two Steel Challenge stages: Five to Go and Double Trouble. We finished one and two in the match (and again, I'm old, but I'm pretty sure you won). You won Five to Go, and I won Double Trouble. We put a hurtin' in them local boys. But my best memory is - on the 7 hour drive home, we talked the entire time about shooting those two stages.

(That cracked me up rereading it.)

[JakeMartens]

I was going to write a book, which became an instructional manual, then more of a pamphlet....I did some editing and came up with this....

It is free for download

Edited May 9, 2014 by JakeMartens

[BritinUSA]

As I watched TGO prepare for the all-steel stage at Nationals, I thought to myself, "He has the look of a man who's thinking of a ham sandwich"

[TGO]

That was the Coors Challenge. I'm getting old too - couldn't remember the name of that match for the life of me.

Indeed, those were the best of times. The "endless talk" was truly endless.

One more... Me and you drove to LA to shoot our first SWPL club match. The match was just two Steel Challenge stages: Five to Go and Double Trouble. We finished one and two in the match (and again, I'm old, but I'm pretty sure you won). You won Five to Go, and I won Double Trouble. We put a hurtin' in them local boys. But my best memory is - on the 7 hour drive home, we talked the entire time about shooting those two stages.

(That cracked me up rereading it.)

Well, I do remember those times. Tell someone you drove 7 hours to shoot two 25 round stages and they'd say you were crazy.... Guess they couldn't understand, wouldn't really expect anyone else too. Level of enthusiasm we had has not really been approached by anyone else since I reckon'!

I don't remember which time it was but at one of those you shot a record on 5 to go that lasted a long time... I remember another one where you picked me up at work in PHX after I got off working graveyard and we drove to the steel challenge. Some kind of rear wheel drive Datsun, maybe 510, 610, 710, 810 ??? It was in the AM and I was exhausted but we still talked shooting all the way over. I still owe you for my part of the gas....

[TGO]

As I watched TGO prepare for the all-steel stage at Nationals, I thought to myself, "He has the look of a man who's thinking of a ham sandwich"

MMMMMM..... sandwich.......

[waynes_world_45]

This thread is friggen awesome. More stories guys!

[BritinUSA]

Another reason why we need a 'History of USPSA' book.

[skargoh]

Man, I grew up in AZ and shot at the public rifle range with my pops at rio salado. I wish i would have known about the cool pistol stuff you guys were doing. I missed out being so close and yet so far away from it.

Just now joined uspsa and shooting matches.

But I live in rainy WA now.

I do remember one time shooting a glock gssf shoot at rio salado around 1999 or 2000....guy in front of me SMOKES the plates faster than I knew was possible...

Saw it was none other than Rob Leatham (I had recognized name from somewhere...magazine?)

I couldnt believe I was shooting the same thing as you, albeit slower and crappier.

[38supPat]

I miss the matches some from then but I really miss the endless talk about shooting and our practice sessions.

Those performances were more pure than we now see. Matches always had an element of entertainment to them. The results while important weren't usually worth much. We didn't have to deal with everyone looking for perfect doubles or reshoots. Most were there just to shoot because for their own reasons, they enjoyed it. I feel few of the "PRO'S" now have that same attitude. It's about getting a f****** shirt with a sponsor on it more than hitting the f****** targets fast.

Man I am old!!

Man this sounds familiar, Driving 4 hours for a 30 round level I match, talking shooting for hours, the practice sessions, all of it. My shooting partner in the 90's and I did a lot of the same thing's and is one of the things I miss the most.

I'm actively trying to get my club to get back to having matches and stages that return us to those days when fun, challenging stages and matches were more important than round count and how quickly shooters can show up, shoot, and bugger off. And believe it or not there are still a lot of shooters out there that want this! We held a match in December and despite it being -20C, and a match consisting of 'only' 4 speed shoots with less than 40 rounds almost all the shooters who came said it was the most fun match they had been to in awhile!....I think the hot chili helped lol

[KelsonAK]

The difference between 'rushing' and 'going fast' - in music it is synchronization.

You can go fast in music - the tempo may call for it. But the entire group, the piece of music, the conductor - it all goes fast together.

You can accelerate in music - but again the entire group accelerates.

Rushing is an individual aspect or component out of sync with the entire group or system. You don't go faster by rushing, you go faster by going faster.

[eerw]

Great thread. I would say shooting in the 80s-90s was the most fun.

[justaute]

Good thread.

[TGO]

I miss the matches some from then but I really miss the endless talk about shooting and our practice sessions.

Those performances were more pure than we now see. Matches always had an element of entertainment to them. The results while important weren't usually worth much. We didn't have to deal with everyone looking for perfect doubles or reshoots. Most were there just to shoot because for their own reasons, they enjoyed it. I feel few of the "PRO'S" now have that same attitude. It's about getting a f****** shirt with a sponsor on it more than hitting the f****** targets fast.

Man I am old!!

Man this sounds familiar, Driving 4 hours for a 30 round level I match, talking shooting for hours, the practice sessions, all of it. My shooting partner in the 90's and I did a lot of the same thing's and is one of the things I miss the most.

I'm actively trying to get my club to get back to having matches and stages that return us to those days when fun, challenging stages and matches were more important than round count and how quickly shooters can show up, shoot, and bugger off. And believe it or not there are still a lot of shooters out there that want this! We held a match in December and despite it being -20C, and a match consisting of 'only' 4 speed shoots with less than 40 rounds almost all the shooters who came said it was the most fun match they had been to in awhile!....I think the hot chili helped lol

MMMMMM!!!! Chili!!!!!

[TGO]

The difference between 'rushing' and 'going fast' - in music it is synchronization.

You can go fast in music - the tempo may call for it. But the entire group, the piece of music, the conductor - it all goes fast together.

You can accelerate in music - but again the entire group accelerates.

Rushing is an individual aspect or component out of sync with the entire group or system. You don't go faster by rushing, you go faster by going faster.

Not sure I agree with some of this. If I understand what you mean, you are saying that something done very fast is being rushed if it leads to a failure or lack of success? That may not be an accurate identification, may be too much of a generalization. If I shoot a shot over the top of the target on a repeat shot, Is it because I rushed the shot or was I slow on the return of the gun?? I get the out of sync example, but have never felt this has to be a smooth, flowing, harmonized event, this shooting we do.

I like the word rush. I rush all the time. All the time. In practice I find something that needs to be done faster than I'm doing it and I then rush that component. I think "rushing" may be an excellent identifier to direct conscious focus on a specific element that needs to be done faster. Like resetting the trigger. I am constantly telling people to hurry the reset. But I do not want the whole trigger manipulation to be done faster, just that one part. Rushing is an excellent way to label the needed change to this event or action. Trying to separate rushing from going faster isn't that important. Might be impossible. Much better to go faster..... If by rushing you do better, then by all means rush. I rush all the time.

Lots of old wives tails and urban myths exist in our sport. Focus on the front sight, don't jerk the trigger, you gotta be relaxed, only release the trigger to the point where it resets..... All that is silly!! Don't be afraid to be tight, or nervous, or go fast or whatever. Like jerking the trigger and not focusing on the sights, The term brings with it a negative connotation, but shouldn't.

If the process of identifying a word draws attention away from perfecting the act, that's bad. Simplify instead. Go faster, make it happen, rush, whatever, but make it happen. That's where improvement comes from. Most of us need to rush some things in our shooting in order to improve.

[TGO]

Always remember that shooting isn't a process of multitasking as much as it is a series of events done very quickly in succession.