New Colorado Magazine Laws & Limited/Open Division

[lcs]

Ok, let me approach this from a different angle to see if it makes more sense for some people. In Colorado the new 16+ round magazine capacity ban applies to acquiring or purchasing new high capacity magazines after July 1st 2013, not limiting the use of high capacity magazines. There is nothing that states you can't USE or BORROW a high capacity magazine past the cut in date even if you or another person didn't "own" it before the July 1st 2013 date. Then there is the whole grandfathering rats nest. The new law basically states that if you owned 16+ round magazines before July 1st 2013 you are grandfathered into legally owning those high capacity magazines before the cut in date of the law. As we all know many magazines do NOT have manufacturing date stamps on them so proving that a magazine was purchased after the July 1st 2013 date is impossible. Obviously if a magazine does have a manufacturing date stamp that can be validated or if a totally new design of firearm/magazine was created after the July 1st 2013 date it will obviously apply to the restrictions defined by the law.

I also want to point out that given all of the loop holes and confusion around how this new law is written the Colorado local and state law enforcement agencies can't even define how this new law will be enforced. There have been ZERO accounts of it being enforced as most law enforcement agencies in Colorado don't want to even touch this law with a 10 foot pole.

If the local and state level law enforcement agencies can't even enforce this law properly, how on earth can you expect a volunteer driven USPSA club to properly enforce it? The answer to that, is that this new magazine capacity law will NOT be enforced at the USPSA club level.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

I think your missing the ole saying "the big picture". Yes, everything you said is probably correct. However; USPSA has to be on the side of the law even if the new law has problems.

[Pseudonym]

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Nice that you still have that problem in Colorado for the time being. As for the People's Republic of Kalifornia, the CA DOJ has already responded to those very questions.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

Also with the passage of AB48 in Kalifornia it is the opinion as of 01/01/14, future acquisition of those magazine "Part Kits" is also HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

[Pseudonym]

The way I read it... this applies to NJ, NY.. others.. but not Colorado or California (as examples).. since the law does not restrict the use of magazines to 15, it just stops people from buying magazines greater than that

but that's just my 1.5 cents worth

OK so why do you think this would only apply to NY & NJ? If all magazines above the legal limit are forbidden, not grandfathered in, why would USPSA feel the need to put in this new rule, huh?

Some people, Law Enforcement, can have the magazines, it's to limit them as well..

Please read above. How is that any different then a person with grandfathered high capacity magazines using them to capacity, then a law enforcement officer using high capacity magazines and using them to capacity? The person who is not legally able to obtain legally the high capacity magazines is still at a disadvantage.

*Edit* In case the mods want to merge threads or people want to read the previous discussion it can be found here.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182966

Edited February 6, 2014 by Pseudonym

[motosapiens]

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

[motosapiens]

Ok, let me approach this from a different angle to see if it makes more sense for some people. In Colorado the new 16+ round magazine capacity ban applies to acquiring or purchasing new high capacity magazines after July 1st 2013, not limiting the use of high capacity magazines. There is nothing that states you can't USE or BORROW a high capacity magazine past the cut in date even if you or another person didn't "own" it before the July 1st 2013 date. Then there is the whole grandfathering rats nest. The new law basically states that if you owned 16+ round magazines before July 1st 2013 you are grandfathered into legally owning those high capacity magazines before the cut in date of the law. As we all know many magazines do NOT have manufacturing date stamps on them so proving that a magazine was purchased after the July 1st 2013 date is impossible. Obviously if a magazine does have a manufacturing date stamp that can be validated or if a totally new design of firearm/magazine was created after the July 1st 2013 date it will obviously apply to the restrictions defined by the law.

I also want to point out that given all of the loop holes and confusion around how this new law is written the Colorado local and state law enforcement agencies can't even define how this new law will be enforced. There have been ZERO accounts of it being enforced as most law enforcement agencies in Colorado don't want to even touch this law with a 10 foot pole.

If the local and state level law enforcement agencies can't even enforce this law properly, how on earth can you expect a volunteer driven USPSA club to properly enforce it? The answer to that, is that this new magazine capacity law will NOT be enforced at the USPSA club level.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

I think your missing the ole saying "the big picture". Yes, everything you said is probably correct. However; USPSA has to be on the side of the law even if the new law has problems.

Correct. And the CO law does not say you can't use high-capacity magazines. It does not have a 'magazine capacity limit'. Sure, it says you can't buy any more high cap mags, and i understand that distinction is kind of subtle to some folks, but it's an entirely different animal from the laws in a couple other states that say you can't possess or use high-cap mags no matter what.

[alecmc]

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

sounds pretty cut and dry then...

If I were a MD in CO, limited and open would be limited to 15 rounds, per the new uspsa rule.

[lcs]

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

Ok, let me approach this from a different angle to see if it makes more sense for some people. In Colorado the new 16+ round magazine capacity ban applies to acquiring or purchasing new high capacity magazines after July 1st 2013, not limiting the use of high capacity magazines. There is nothing that states you can't USE or BORROW a high capacity magazine past the cut in date even if you or another person didn't "own" it before the July 1st 2013 date. Then there is the whole grandfathering rats nest. The new law basically states that if you owned 16+ round magazines before July 1st 2013 you are grandfathered into legally owning those high capacity magazines before the cut in date of the law. As we all know many magazines do NOT have manufacturing date stamps on them so proving that a magazine was purchased after the July 1st 2013 date is impossible. Obviously if a magazine does have a manufacturing date stamp that can be validated or if a totally new design of firearm/magazine was created after the July 1st 2013 date it will obviously apply to the restrictions defined by the law.

I also want to point out that given all of the loop holes and confusion around how this new law is written the Colorado local and state law enforcement agencies can't even define how this new law will be enforced. There have been ZERO accounts of it being enforced as most law enforcement agencies in Colorado don't want to even touch this law with a 10 foot pole.

If the local and state level law enforcement agencies can't even enforce this law properly, how on earth can you expect a volunteer driven USPSA club to properly enforce it? The answer to that, is that this new magazine capacity law will NOT be enforced at the USPSA club level.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

I think your missing the ole saying "the big picture". Yes, everything you said is probably correct. However; USPSA has to be on the side of the law even if the new law has problems.

Correct. And the CO law does not say you can't use high-capacity magazines. It does not have a 'magazine capacity limit'. Sure, it says you can't buy any more high cap mags, and i understand that distinction is kind of subtle to some folks, but it's an entirely different animal from the laws in a couple other states that say you can't possess or use high-cap mags no matter what.

Agreed, BUT new shooters show up with Open/Lim guns and want to shoot Open/Lim and they have five 15 round mags. As the MD, what do you do? Run around and try to borrow mags for them?

You are going to have to limit O and L to 15 rounds if you want a USPSA sanctioned match. It stinks, but it is what it is. USPSA as an organization has to support the laws.

[CHA-LEE]

If any Colorado USPSA clubs tried adopting an artificial 15 round magazine capacity limit in Limited & Open divisions that club would go under because those divisions define the bulk of the shooters attending the match. Is this what USPSA wants? For clubs to go belly up ATTEMPTING to enforce an unenforceable state law?

In Colorado we have 16 different USPSA clubs. In the summer months all of these clubs combined average around 650 total shooters in attendance. That is almost $2000 in Mission Count and Classifier Fee income alone that USPSA gains PER MONTH from Colorado USPSA matches. Not to mention all of the income gained from membership renewals and other USPSA fees. Does USPSA really want to risk losing that income by force feeding an unenforceable rule onto the Colorado USPSA clubs? Many of these clubs can just as easily switch to hosting non-USPSA "Outlaw" matches if they feel that the USPSA rules are becoming unrealistic to the realities of the incompetently defined state laws.

[Pseudonym]

Correct. And the CO law does not say you can't use high-capacity magazines. It does not have a 'magazine capacity limit'. Sure, it says you can't buy any more high cap mags, and i understand that distinction is kind of subtle to some folks, but it's an entirely different animal from the laws in a couple other states that say you can't possess or use high-cap mags no matter what.

My Google Fu is weak today I am trying to find the wording on the CO bill as passed. In CA the wording is very easy to understand. The old PC was 12020.

Penal Code 32310 (a)(2)) states:

Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section

32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section

17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any

person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,

imports into the state,

keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or

who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine is

punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or

in the state prison.

*EDIT* OK I found the CO bill as passed. Hey Moto as far as that "lending" you may want to check out the language in

18-12-302 (2) (a) (II)(II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY

MAGAZINE.

This is still new to CO and I am sure there will be legal challenges in court. I just wish them a faster result in obtaining their civil rights then we have been able to get in Kalifornia.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Pseudonym

[Supermoto]

USPSA passed a rule without giving thought to the consequences....shocking

[rgkeller]

The issue at hand is not the CO state but rather the USPSA rule.

I agree with Sarge's interpretation but the BOD is obviously the final authority.

Hello BOD!

[Sarge]

I know gaming is what USPSA is all about but I just can't see HQ condoning potentially breaking a law by telling an MD to game the laws by using doublespeak to circumvent a magazine law.

Maybe I am wrong or just too uptight to possibly break a law that may limit my ability to own guns in the future.

At the very least as an MD in CO I would ask if anybody only had 15 round mags to shoot a match. If they did then I would enforce the rule and the law and limit all competitors(at least in the same division) to 15 rounds

[CHA-LEE]

I know gaming is what USPSA is all about but I just can't see HQ condoning potentially breaking a law by telling an MD to game the laws by using doublespeak to circumvent a magazine law.

Maybe I am wrong or just too uptight to possibly break a law that may limit my ability to own guns in the future.

At the very least as an MD in CO I would ask if anybody only had 15 round mags to shoot a match. If they did then I would enforce the rule and the law and limit all competitors(at least in the same division) to 15 rounds

Then you would have drastically reduced match attendance and would quickly become financially insolvent. Deploying a 15 round magazine limit in Colorado USPSA matches is a perfect way to put a club out of business. I guess if there is no match any more then you don't really have to adhere to the rules. So the problem solves its self...... WIN...... or not.

[motosapiens]

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

sounds pretty cut and dry then...

If I were a MD in CO, limited and open would be limited to 15 rounds, per the new uspsa rule.

But the rule doesn't say 'if you can't buy large cap mags right now....'. So you would be making up your own tribal rule. Which is fine, i guess.

[Pseudonym]

If any Colorado USPSA clubs tried adopting an artificial 15 round magazine capacity limit in Limited & Open divisions that club would go under because those divisions define the bulk of the shooters attending the match. Is this what USPSA wants? For clubs to go belly up ATTEMPTING to enforce an unenforceable state law?

In Colorado we have 16 different USPSA clubs. In the summer months all of these clubs combined average around 650 total shooters in attendance. That is almost $2000 in Mission Count and Classifier Fee income alone that USPSA gains PER MONTH from Colorado USPSA matches. Not to mention all of the income gained from membership renewals and other USPSA fees. Does USPSA really want to risk losing that income by force feeding an unenforceable rule onto the Colorado USPSA clubs? Many of these clubs can just as easily switch to hosting non-USPSA "Outlaw" matches if they feel that the USPSA rules are becoming unrealistic to the realities of the incompetently defined state laws.

Hawaii has been shooting USPSA with 10 round magazine limits for years. IPSC in Canada has been shooting with a 10 round magazine restriction as well. So you seem to think USPSA clubs will go under and/or go outlaw if they follow USPSA's new rule? So what were the reasons they are bothering to shoot and maintain membership in USPSA before this? My concern for all the states with these idiotic laws is the Junior shooters coming up. They are going to be stuck to production, revolver and limited 10, unless they break the law or move from behind enemy lines.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Pseudonym

[CHA-LEE]

The difference between Hawaii and Canada is that their laws have a HARD 10 round limit on everyone, no grandfathering of old high capacity magazines and what not. In those places its very easy to deploy an artificial 10 round magazine capacity limit at USPSA/IPSC matches because the same 10 round limit law applies to everyone and every club the same way in those locations.

In Colorado the 16+ round magazine capacity ban does not universally apply to everyone and on top of that the overwhelming majority of existing USPSA shooters already fall within the grandfathering requirement. If any Colorado USPSA clubs take a stance of enforcing an artificial 15 round magazine capacity requirement those clubs WILL suffer a massive decrease to their match attendance. The shooters will simply go to the "Other" USPSA matches which do not have the artificial 15 mag capacity limit dictated by the Match Director. The way this USPSA rule is written its up to EACH Match Director to determine if an artificial magazine capacity limit should or should not apply. Given the current vagueness of how the 16+ round magazine capacity ban is written and complete lack of official law enforcement guidelines in how this law will be enforced there is no way that any Colorado Match Director can make an informed decision that supports deploying an artificial 15 round capacity restriction. That and you really think that 16 different match directors will all come to the same decision on the proactive deployment of an artificial 15 round capacity limit? There is NO WAY that is going to happen.

For the new shooters coming into the sport, they do have the chance of being negatively impacted by this new law. But given the current verbiage of the law, these new shooters can still compete unrestricted in Limited or Open LEGALLY by simply borrowing or renting high capacity magazines from shooters who own them LEGALLY within the grandfathering requirements of the law. The shooting community does band together in times like these and I am sure many local shooters would be willing to help a fellow new shooter compete in whatever division they want by lending what is needed to make it all happen without breaking the law. I am not saying that this is an optimal solution to the issue, but it is a viable solution.

Edited February 6, 2014 by CHA-LEE

[Pseudonym]

For the new shooters coming into the sport, they do have the chance of being negatively impacted by this new law. But given the current verbiage of the law, these new shooters can still compete unrestricted in Limited or Open LEGALLY by simply borrowing or renting high capacity magazines from shooters who own them LEGALLY within the grandfathering requirements of the law. The shooting community does band together in times like these and I am sure many local shooters would be willing to help a fellow new shooter compete in whatever division they want by lending what is needed to make it all happen without breaking the law. I am not saying that this is an optimal solution to the issue, but it is a viable solution.

Cha Lee before you and Moto go off telling people to loan or rent out magazines, I would have a competent gun attorney look at the text of this section of the law. It reads to me that the owners of high capacity magazine are not allowed to lend or give their magazines away.

18-12-302 (2) (a) (II)(II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY

MAGAZINE.

[CHA-LEE]

For the new shooters coming into the sport, they do have the chance of being negatively impacted by this new law. But given the current verbiage of the law, these new shooters can still compete unrestricted in Limited or Open LEGALLY by simply borrowing or renting high capacity magazines from shooters who own them LEGALLY within the grandfathering requirements of the law. The shooting community does band together in times like these and I am sure many local shooters would be willing to help a fellow new shooter compete in whatever division they want by lending what is needed to make it all happen without breaking the law. I am not saying that this is an optimal solution to the issue, but it is a viable solution.

Cha Lee before you and Moto go off telling people to loan or rent out magazines, I would have a competent gun attorney look at the text of this section of the law. It reads to me that the owners of high capacity magazine are not allowed to lend or give their magazines away.18-12-302 (2) (a) (II)(II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITYMAGAZINE.

That is one part of the new law that has been clarified by the state lawyers. It is legal to lend your high capacity magazines to others as long as you are present. This requirement can be easily met by simply attending a match with the person you are lending the magazine to and getting it back before you leave the match.

[MarkCO]

The issue at hand is not the CO state but rather the USPSA rule.

I agree with Sarge's interpretation but the BOD is obviously the final authority.

Hello BOD!

The BOD does not interpret the rules, that is the purview of the DNROI. Read your rulebook.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

sounds pretty cut and dry then...

If I were a MD in CO, limited and open would be limited to 15 rounds, per the new uspsa rule.

And you would be WRONG.

Just FYI, Cha-Lee has seen the e-mail from Amidon that interprets the rule for Colorado. MD's can not just go make up rules and decide which rule to follow and not follow. You follow the rulebook, or you don't shoot USPSA.

Since the CO does not prohibit possession, the rule simply does not apply. I had an e-mail discussion with my AD and Amidon within hours of reading the rule.

DONE!

[ZackJones]

Edit: Ignore my post -- seems MarkCO and Big Panda have been talking with Amidon and have things under control.

I can see from a MD's point of view where you would need to implement an all or nothing type of ruling. Either everyone runs 16 round limit or no one does. But let's skip that for a minute and look at it from a shooting perspective. If Open and Limited divisions are required to implement the 16 round limit that applies to everyone shooting that match so there's no disparity there. In a big stick you can get what 31 rounds of 9mm? What's the max you can get in a Limited mag today 20 or 21 rounds? Add 1 from your barney mag and you have 32 for a big stick and 21 or 22 for a limited mag. For the big stick that's enough ammo to complete a 32-round field course without reloading. Limited shooters are going to have to reload at least once anyways. So you implement the 16-round maximum the only thing it changes is it now requires the shooters to perform at least one reload during the stage. Given that all limited and open shooters would have to perform that reload things remain equal for all competitors. Where I think you're going to run into huge problems is if Club A voluntarily implements the 16 round limit and club B does not. This type of issue seems like one that the section coordinator and area director need to work with all clubs and come up with a decision that all clubs will honor. At least that way you have consistent implementation across the stage. I hate it for you guys that live in magazine capacity limited states. Good luck getting it worked out, Big Panda.

Edited February 7, 2014 by ZackJones

[rgkeller]

The issue at hand is not the CO state but rather the USPSA rule.

I agree with Sarge's interpretation but the BOD is obviously the final authority.

Hello BOD!

The BOD does not interpret the rules, that is the purview of the DNROI. Read your rulebook.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

sounds pretty cut and dry then...

If I were a MD in CO, limited and open would be limited to 15 rounds, per the new uspsa rule.

And you would be WRONG.

Just FYI, Cha-Lee has seen the e-mail from Amidon that interprets the rule for Colorado. MD's can not just go make up rules and decide which rule to follow and not follow. You follow the rulebook, or you don't shoot USPSA.

Since the CO does not prohibit possession, the rule simply does not apply. I had an e-mail discussion with my AD and Amidon within hours of reading the rule.

DONE!

The BOD has final say over all rules.

Read your By Laws

[Sarge]

The issue at hand is not the CO state but rather the USPSA rule.

I agree with Sarge's interpretation but the BOD is obviously the final authority.

Hello BOD!

The BOD does not interpret the rules, that is the purview of the DNROI. Read your rulebook.

Once again...... If the local or state law enforcement agencies can't even decide on how the new high capacity magazine ban law will be interpreted so a decision can be made on how it will be enforced, how can we expect a USPSA club to do so? Every single Colorado USPSA club contacted their local sheriff to request guidance on how this law should or will be enforced and no definitive answers were ever given. Until the Colorado local or state law enforcement agencies can provide a definitive answer to how the law will be interpreted and enforced the local USPSA matches will continue to function as if the law does not exist.

Scenario.

The Date is 2/6/14

I live in CO.

I do not currently own any equipment.

I want to shoot open or limited

Can I go to the local gun store and buy a magazine greater then 15 rounds?

no, but you can borrow them, or obtain them in some other way or shoot some other division.

sounds pretty cut and dry then...

If I were a MD in CO, limited and open would be limited to 15 rounds, per the new uspsa rule.

And you would be WRONG.

Just FYI, Cha-Lee has seen the e-mail from Amidon that interprets the rule for Colorado. MD's can not just go make up rules and decide which rule to follow and not follow. You follow the rulebook, or you don't shoot USPSA.

Since the CO does not prohibit possession, the rule simply does not apply. I had an e-mail discussion with my AD and Amidon within hours of reading the rule.

DONE!

Wow, 45 posts later we find out that DNROI has ruled on the CO laws before the thread even started. And then a DONE! is typed like the hand of god just reached down and called everybody stupid. What was the point here? just some kind of f'ed up game?

But as has been the case many times Amidon has made a ruling that does not sound right based on what the rules say. Why was the rule even written stating quite simply that if not everybody can shoot a high capacity magazine then nobody can in order to keep things on a level playing field. Then a ruling or opinion says, "well, not in this case". It's also a cop out to say that MD's can't make their own rules or it's not a USPSA sanctioned tournament. Well no S#!T!! If the AD or SC had all of this ironed out already why wasn't that mentioned? CO is a million miles away anyway and I really don't care much one way or the other how you guys run your matches. Hopefully someday your state's laws will get corrected but that probably won't happen.

[Sarge]

I hate it for you guys that live in magazine capacity limited states.

But don't you get it? CO is not a magazine capacity limited state!

And following the rule as written is not conducting a sanctioned match and MD's would be creating an "artificial" 15 round restriction.

[obsessiveshooter]

I kind of disagree here. It's a crime to buy or sell a mag above 15 rounds in our state. That pretty much is the definition of a mag capacity limited state. I'm surprised that so many are willing to admit that, yes, this will keep new shooters from engaging in a fair competition. That situation isn't conjecture. I am a new shooter in that boat.

I started out in USPSA months ago and the only division I am really interested in shooting is Limited. The pistol I use takes 16 round mags, and fortunately I have 7 of them. But, no one makes a +4 or +5 mag base plate for my gun so I am already realizing I need to upgrade to a glock 35 as an economical upgrade or work a lot of Saturdays for an STI. I can buy those pistols, but I'll have to drive to another state in hopes of buying the 20 round magazines for those pistols. I'd almost certainly get away with it, but the truth is I would actually be risking losing my concealed carry license and maybe even would get denied by the system in a FFL background check for a gun related misdemeanor (if caught). That's something to really think about. And besides, how shady would you feel scratching off the serial number on a magazine. I think a lot of people will consider the cost and just choose not to risk it. Imagine not being able to legally own a firearm over something this stupid.

The business-as-usual approach might work for now, but if our state laws don't change you have to admit that we will have to go to a 15 rnd limit at some point.

[warpspeed]

I thought 3.3.1 was in response to NY and the exemption for LE. I thought it was to make it where non-LE weren't at a competitive disadvantage.

I dont know if thats a part of it, but the way I understand it is so that everybody is at a level playing field.

so , all the current guys in CO can run around with their 25-30 round big sticks in open division, but the guy who wants to start playing today , or tomorrow, or next month - with newly purchased equipment, is limited to 15 rounds.

.....and you are making the argument that this is " fair " ?

I wasn't making any argument. I was recalling a previous discussion from memory. no more - no less.

But to answer your question (from the point of being a complete dick) this does not prevent you or anyone from shooting USPSA.

I thought 3.3.1 was in response to NY and the exemption for LE. I thought it was to make it where non-LE weren't at a competitive disadvantage.

If this is the case then how is someone with grandfathered in magazines showing up, different then law enforcement personal showing up, from a competitive advantage perspective?

See above comment to alecmc. Oh, and show me where it is a felony to import, offer for sale, mfg, etc a mag > 10 rds in CA. ( here's a hint: it isn't one )

Here is a link to all the dirty details : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709