awfaxis Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I'm a Nevada resident, but live close to the California border. Taking an RO class in California in a few weeks, and checked some laws new for 2014. From what I have gathered via research, a non-CA-resident may NOT bring a magazine with more than 10 round capacity into California. CA residents have different treatment, as CA residents that already owned them prior to Jan 1, 2014 may keep them. There are a few more exemptions, such as people owning LCM's prior to 2000, LEO's and such. The key is however, no one may IMPORT. (Prior to 2014, this was phrased IMPORT FOR SALE..., but no longer). The point is, NON-Residents have NO exemptions. How will rule 3.3.1 be applied in this case? As most California resident competitors may still legally use "hi-cap magazines", it would appear that all out of state competitors cannot (felony). It seems to me that "out-of-state" competitors will not be welcome. Dave Edited January 31, 2014 by awfaxis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think that law has been in effect for a number of years.. 1998? 3.3.1 doesn't apply, since if you had, they're still legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 The difference is the California legislative changes passed in 2013, which became effective Jan 1 2014. It is now illegal for anyone to bring a LCM into California. Only CA residents have a pass, under specific circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't think this is a change.. people often did bring them in, but it was technically against the law then too.. it's been discussed here quite a bit. This was true with I lived there 5+ years ago And since the mags owned by a lawful owner, are ok, there's no change regarding USPSA rules - it's business as usual Out of state competitors are probably better off in SS, Prod, L-10 and Revolver.. I think even the old laws prohibited loaning/borrowing mags > 10 rounds, but not positive on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'd say that 3.3.1. applies to all competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 There's a long thread on 3.3.1 in the rules forum.. check that out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm a Nevada resident, but live close to the California border. Taking an RO class in California in a few weeks, and checked some laws new for 2014. From what I have gathered via research, a non-CA-resident may NOT bring a magazine with more than 10 round capacity into California. CA residents have different treatment, as CA residents that already owned them prior to Jan 1, 2014 may keep them. There are a few more exemptions, such as people owning LCM's prior to 2000, LEO's and such. The key is however, no one may IMPORT. (Prior to 2014, this was phrased IMPORT FOR SALE..., but no longer). The point is, NON-Residents have NO exemptions. How will rule 3.3.1 be applied in this case? As most California resident competitors may still legally use "hi-cap magazines", it would appear that all out of state competitors cannot (felony). It seems to me that "out-of-state" competitors will not be welcome. Dave there are a number of folks from your state shooting in kali every month. just saying'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The last time we talked about this... Later, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Wow, quite a thread. Too bad it got so heated with a few people. Now that PC 32310-32311 has been updated, there is NO legal way for a non-CA-resident to bring hi-cap mags to any California match. It is the "importing" clause that is important. So the 3.3.1 rule will basically bring everyone to O10 or L10, if such person competes. Guess I'll have to buy some 10 rd magazines now. Dave PENAL CODE SECTION 32310-32390 32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, anyperson in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes forsale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacitymagazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceedingone year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section1170. ( For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes bothfabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combinationof parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower,and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioninglarge-capacity magazine.32311. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, anyperson in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to bemanufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers orexposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any largecapacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not morethan one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jailnot to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. Thissection does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine,which is governed by Section 32310. ( For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazineconversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fullyfunctioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to,the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable ofconverting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacitymagazine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Wow, quite a thread. Too bad it got so heated with a few people. Now that PC 32310-32311 has been updated, there is NO legal way for a non-CA-resident to bring hi-cap mags to any California match. It is the "importing" clause that is important. So the 3.3.1 rule will basically bring everyone to O10 or L10, if such person competes. Guess I'll have to buy some 10 rd magazines now. Dave PENAL CODE SECTION 32310-32390 32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. ( For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine. 32311. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine, which is governed by Section 32310. ( For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine. ... And you should continue to shoot single stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Sooner or later revolver division will be the most popular. At least in a few states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Sooner or later revolver division will be the most popular. At least in a few states. I guarantee you are wrong, there are plenty of open and limited as well as 3 gunners in CA. Wont catch me with a wheel gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGMorden Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sooner or later revolver division will be the most popular. At least in a few states. I guarantee you are wrong, there are plenty of open and limited as well as 3 gunners in CA. Wont catch me with a wheel gun Yeah - there are ICORE clubs that allow you to shoot autoloaders with the stipulation that you only load 6 rounds per mag - and many still get more autoloaders shooting than actual revolvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I think the new bill the OP is talking about is AB48. As previously posted the ban on magazines greater then 10 rounds has been law since 01/01/2000 in Kalifornia, except for those grandfathered in. If you wish to read more about AB48 here is one link of many that can be found on the subject at CalGuns. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=838667&highlight=ab48 Edited February 22, 2014 by Pseudonym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I'm a Nevada resident, but live close to the California border. Taking an RO class in California in a few weeks, and checked some laws new for 2014. From what I have gathered via research, a non-CA-resident may NOT bring a magazine with more than 10 round capacity into California. CA residents have different treatment, as CA residents that already owned them prior to Jan 1, 2014 may keep them. There are a few more exemptions, such as people owning LCM's prior to 2000, LEO's and such. The key is however, no one may IMPORT. (Prior to 2014, this was phrased IMPORT FOR SALE..., but no longer). The point is, NON-Residents have NO exemptions. How will rule 3.3.1 be applied in this case? As most California resident competitors may still legally use "hi-cap magazines", it would appear that all out of state competitors cannot (felony). It seems to me that "out-of-state" competitors will not be welcome. Dave Yeah, basically guns are not welcome here. BTW, they are already passing laws to nullify the "grandfather" clause on hi-caps legally owned here prior to the ban enacting. Some cities have "confiscation" laws in place where anyone possessing a hi-cap is a felon. period. No exceptions. Most cities don't have that, but some do. Really good state to avoid altogether. Smith Wesson and Ruger have already informed the state they will no longer sell guns here. BTW: you also can not "borrow" hi caps from a legal owner here for use in competition. We are restricted from transferring possession on those for any purpose. Edited February 22, 2014 by bountyhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So I guess no Open or Limited national-level matches in CA anymore. Probably not L10 or steel Challenge either, as a lot of folks use doublestacks for those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriera Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As a Nevada resident I have stopped going to CA for matches, in fact I not even cross into CA for going to matches in Lake Havasu, I do an extra 30 miles or so to get there. Very unfortunate, Norco puts some great matches, but between local matches, St George, Kingman and Havasu I can have, at least, one match every weekend. I guess 'they' are winning .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtychemist Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Fun fact, under the old law...if the grandfathered magazines ever left the State they weren't allowed to come back legally. Edit:shooting single stack makes it much easier to travel to 48 states other than my State of residence. Edited March 3, 2014 by Dirtychemist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadazielmeister Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Wow, quite a thread. Too bad it got so heated with a few people. Now that PC 32310-32311 has been updated, there is NO legal way for a non-CA-resident to bring hi-cap mags to any California match. It is the "importing" clause that is important. So the 3.3.1 rule will basically bring everyone to O10 or L10, if such person competes. Guess I'll have to buy some 10 rd magazines now. Dave PENAL CODE SECTION 32310-32390 32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, anyperson in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes forsale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacitymagazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceedingone year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section1170. ( For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes bothfabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combinationof parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower,and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioninglarge-capacity magazine.32311. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, anyperson in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to bemanufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers orexposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any largecapacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not morethan one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jailnot to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. Thissection does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine,which is governed by Section 32310. ( For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazineconversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fullyfunctioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to,the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable ofconverting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacitymagazine.... Dave, I did a little bit of research and with those statutes, everything seems okay, until you read California Penal Code 32390 which reads: "32390. Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010." And so we must read California Penal Code 18010: 18010. (a) The Attorney General, district attorney, or city attorney may bring an action to enjoin the manufacture of, importation of, keeping for sale of, offering or exposing for sale, giving, lending, or possession of, any item that constitutes a nuisance under any of the following provisions: ... (20) Section 32390, relating to a large-capacity magazine. ... ( These weapons shall be subject to confiscation and summary destruction whenever found within the state. © These weapons shall be destroyed in the same manner described in Section 18005, except that upon the certification of a judge or of the district attorney that the ends of justice will be served thereby, the weapon shall be preserved until the necessity for its use ceases." So what I read from this is that they will simply confiscate your magazines and then destroy them. There would be no fine involved. I would ask this: With a discretion of a police officer involved, would they really do any "raids" on any local USPSA match? I would suspect that there are at least one or two officers at any given California USPSA match that would not blink an eye at people using high capacity magazines. I understand that these statutes were constructed to battle the violence in heavy crime areas and are used as "add-on" offenses. How often do we believe that these are enforced. I suspect enforcement varies GREATLY throughout the state. But then, this is all an academic discussion when you realize that there are SO MANY matches here in Northern Nevada. We have the matches in Fallon, Reno and Carson City. Did I miss any others? The only matches I go to in Sacramento are the NorCal Practical Precision Rifle Club matches, which are all bolt action matches. So no worries there since you would not have a magazine greater than 10 rounds. Good discussion though. I checked around in Calguns and the prevailing theme there was simple: no one bothers you about high capacity magazines. And when I spoke to some people from a 3Gun club from Sacramento who travelled here to Reno, stated that they have all kinds of "illegal" stuff and no one bothers them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Wow, quite a thread. Too bad it got so heated with a few people. Now that PC 32310-32311 has been updated, there is NO legal way for a non-CA-resident to bring hi-cap mags to any California match. It is the "importing" clause that is important. So the 3.3.1 rule will basically bring everyone to O10 or L10, if such person competes. Guess I'll have to buy some 10 rd magazines now. Dave PENAL CODE SECTION 32310-32390 32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. ( For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine. 32311. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine, which is governed by Section 32310. ( For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine. ... Dave, I did a little bit of research and with those statutes, everything seems okay, until you read California Penal Code 32390 which reads: "32390. Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010." And so we must read California Penal Code 18010: 18010. (a) The Attorney General, district attorney, or city attorney may bring an action to enjoin the manufacture of, importation of, keeping for sale of, offering or exposing for sale, giving, lending, or possession of, any item that constitutes a nuisance under any of the following provisions: ... (20) Section 32390, relating to a large-capacity magazine. ... ( These weapons shall be subject to confiscation and summary destruction whenever found within the state. © These weapons shall be destroyed in the same manner described in Section 18005, except that upon the certification of a judge or of the district attorney that the ends of justice will be served thereby, the weapon shall be preserved until the necessity for its use ceases." So what I read from this is that they will simply confiscate your magazines and then destroy them. There would be no fine involved. I would ask this: With a discretion of a police officer involved, would they really do any "raids" on any local USPSA match? I would suspect that there are at least one or two officers at any given California USPSA match that would not blink an eye at people using high capacity magazines. I understand that these statutes were constructed to battle the violence in heavy crime areas and are used as "add-on" offenses. How often do we believe that these are enforced. I suspect enforcement varies GREATLY throughout the state. But then, this is all an academic discussion when you realize that there are SO MANY matches here in Northern Nevada. We have the matches in Fallon, Reno and Carson City. Did I miss any others? The only matches I go to in Sacramento are the NorCal Practical Precision Rifle Club matches, which are all bolt action matches. So no worries there since you would not have a magazine greater than 10 rounds. Good discussion though. I checked around in Calguns and the prevailing theme there was simple: no one bothers you about high capacity magazines. And when I spoke to some people from a 3Gun club from Sacramento who travelled here to Reno, stated that they have all kinds of "illegal" stuff and no one bothers them. You need to read a little further in the CAPC specifically: Article 2 commencing with Section 32400. As far as leaving the state of Kalifornia and returning to the state it is also covered there specifically: 32420. Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the same large-capacity magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Fun fact, under the old law...if the grandfathered magazines ever left the State they weren't allowed to come back legally. Edit:shooting single stack makes it much easier to travel to 48 states other than my State of residence. So the US is 48 + 1 = 49 now, what State did we loose? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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