Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 So I'm still struggling to figure out the issue with using Tula primers in my SP01 Shadow. A couple of weeks ago I loaded up 100 of them and shot them with the following spring config: 11.5# hammer spring reduced pwr firing pin spring reduced pwr trigger return spring 98/100 fired without issue & since these would be for training only I figured I was good to use them. I loaded up about 1,000 this weekend and on Mon had 27 light strikes out of 135 ... So last night I changed out springs to the following: 13# hammer spring reg firing pin spring reduced pwr trigger return spring (didn't have time to change it out last night ...) this morning I had 25 light strikes out of 125 So, would putting back the reg trigger return spring make a big difference? The primers all look seated correctly so I'm not sure what's going on ....? I'm going to make a separate post so see what spring config people are using who use Tulas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nimitz- For the Shadow, I always seat the primers deep, to where i see them start to flatten. But, I've never used Tula primers. Changing the trigger return spring will not help. The firing pin tunnel is usually rough on the Shadows. Push a small screw driver or allen wrench down the firing pin tunnel and you'll feel the ridges. Smoothing thes out will improve ignition. Also get an extended firing pin if you don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Why would you put the regular FP spring back in? Put the reduced power back in and get a extended FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ken, You need to fully understand the implications of each modification you're making: 13# hammer spring - a heavier hammer spring will help reduce the number of light strikes reg firing pin spring - a heavier firing pin return spring will increase the number of light strikes reduced pwr trigger return spring (didn't have time to change it out last night ...) - the trigger return spring has zero effect on light strikes Polishing the hammer, polishing the strut, polishing the firing pin, polishing the firing pin tunnel, installing an extended firing pin; these things will help you reduce light strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 the factors/parts involved in the ignition system of the gun firing pin, firing pin spring, hammer spring. these will directly affect what you will be able to ignite. things that will improve reliability-longer firing pin, lighter FP spring, heavier main spring. So given where you are. light FP spring, long FP and heavier mainspring will be the combo you are seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thx guys! Although I didn't post it (just too lazy to type with my one finger) what I was hoping was that someone(s) would explain how these springs relate to each other so I could understand the effects of changing them ... ok, so I'll put the reduced pwr firing pin spring back in (already have the extended firing pin). I didn't think it mattered but that's not why I didn't change it ... what technique do you use to polish the firing pin tunnel and other parts? Also, can someone measure their extended FP so I can check mine to ensure I have that one? Or is there some other way to tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueorb Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thx guys! Although I didn't post it (just too lazy to type with my one finger) what I was hoping was that someone(s) would explain how these springs relate to each other so I could understand the effects of changing them ... ok, so I'll put the reduced pwr firing pin spring back in (already have the extended firing pin). I didn't think it mattered but that's not why I didn't change it ... what technique do you use to polish the firing pin tunnel and other parts? Also, can someone measure their extended FP so I can check mine to ensure I have that one? Or is there some other way to tell? My extended FP measures exactly 2.5 in. This is an interesting thread. I have a 13# hammer spring, a reduced FP spring and I can only set off Federal SPP. I tried CCI and Winchester and had about a 1 of 3 or 1 of 4 failure to fire rate. Stuart did the work on mine so I'm not sure what else was done to add that causes the light strikes. I really, really like both the double and single pulls on my 75 so I don't won't to really mess with it. However, it would be nice to make an easy swap so that I could use CCI or Winchester to at least practice with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheels Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Never tried tula but when I first got my shadow custom it wouldn't reliably ignite wolf primers. I traded them off for .22 lr ammo. It has been 100% with federal and CCI primers. I've also very recently gone to a CGW 11.5 mainspring and I've had 100% reliability with CCI primers; I haven't yet tried federal with this setup but expect 100% reliability with them. If i were you, I would dump the tulas. Edited January 29, 2014 by twowheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 that's strange ....I have no issue with Win/CCI & the reduced springs. Can't afford to be req'd to use only Feds as they are impossible to get around here and expensive ($40.99/1000) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 2.64 cents/1000 vice 4.10 cents/1000 times 25,000+ rds/yr is hard to ignore for training purposes ...so I'd like to find a way to make them work if possible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheels Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Polishing, extended fp, light fp spring, heavier mainspring and you'll no doubt be able to make them work. But they seem to be an inferior product and definitely require compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) 2.64 cents/1000 vice 4.10 cents/1000 times 25,000+ rds/yr is hard to ignore for training purposes ...so I'd like to find a way to make them work if possible ... I've been paying 2.8 or 2.9 cents apiece for cci primers (including shipping and hazmat). that seems easie to me than using tula. I buy them 10-20 k at a time, but i got that price for them just a month or so ago. Edited January 29, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Thx guys! Although I didn't post it (just too lazy to type with my one finger) what I was hoping was that someone(s) would explain how these springs relate to each other so I could understand the effects of changing them ... ok, so I'll put the reduced pwr firing pin spring back in (already have the extended firing pin). I didn't think it mattered but that's not why I didn't change it ... what technique do you use to polish the firing pin tunnel and other parts? Also, can someone measure their extended FP so I can check mine to ensure I have that one? Or is there some other way to tell? My extended FP measures exactly 2.5 in. This is an interesting thread. I have a 13# hammer spring, a reduced FP spring and I can only set off Federal SPP. I tried CCI and Winchester and had about a 1 of 3 or 1 of 4 failure to fire rate. Stuart did the work on mine so I'm not sure what else was done to add that causes the light strikes. I really, really like both the double and single pulls on my 75 so I don't won't to really mess with it. However, it would be nice to make an easy swap so that I could use CCI or Winchester to at least practice with. Shannon.. PM me would you. Edited January 29, 2014 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I see that PV has CCI now for 27.50 + HZ & shipping, not quite 23.50/1000 like tulas but way better than $41/1000 for the other stuff so if I have to and can unload the Tulas I will go that route ... 2 people just posted to another thread I started and said they use Tulas all day long with 13# hammer, reduced pwr PF spring & extended FP so hopefully I'll have good news to report on Fri morning ... I'd like to get to stop fiddling with my load and focus on shooting again .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gussers Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I just posted this in another post about the same issue. I obtained about 6k Tulammo (Tula) primers and had anywhere between 2 and 5 failures (light strikes) out of each 100 I tried. What I found across the board was the primers were all seated too deeply. I tried this in both my 75B and my Tac Sport. Same issue. The best of the problem bunch would ignite on a second or third attempt. The worst of them didn't work... period! In comparing them to my other primers (Winchester, CCI, and Federal) I noticed the Tulas were shorter than the others by a couple thou. It's visible with just the naked eye if you place them side by side. I haven't found a good way to ensure they are seated to a consistent depth and so have relegated them to practice ammo only. I use only CCI 500s for my matches. Take a micrometer to the primers on the troubled rounds and I'm pretty certain you'll find they are somewhere over 7 thou below flush. The worst ones were around 12 thou for me and these wouldn't work, no matter how many times I tried. Hope this helps someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 2.64 cents/1000 vice 4.10 cents/1000 times 25,000+ rds/yr is hard to ignore for training purposes ...so I'd like to find a way to make them work if possible ... works out to a dollar a day.... if reliable ignition costs you a dollar a day it may be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately everyone says that about everything ... Those primers are just $1 more, those bullets are just 1.5 cents more each, that hotel for the match is just $10 more per day, that gas station is just 3 cents more per gallon, etc, etc. Maybe it's the engineer in me but all those "little" extras add up to real money ... I refer to it as invisible money ....it's money you never really see because the amounts are small but it all adds up at the end of the year ... A silly, but relevant example is when I go out to lunch, which I do every day, 5 days a week. I used get an iced tea at lunch, $1.99 (now $2.19). No big deal right? It's just 2 bucks ... Well do the math and you'll discover that if you drink water every day for lunch instead you'll have saved $500 a year... The the price of a new gun ... I learned a long time ago that the little things actually do matter ... Sorry for the soap box but I hear all the time not to sweat the small stuff but I've come to realize that there are not many who shoot 25,000-30,000 rds a year so what is not a big deal to them turns out to be one for me .... Edited January 30, 2014 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneBray Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have used Tula and Wolfe primers and always had/have issues with light strikes in an SP01. My current configuration is the following: 1) Seat primers deep - .005" - .007" (if loading a a Dillon 550/650 seat them as deep as possible without crushing) 2) 8.5 lb. main/hammer spring (Did not have issues with 11 lb. main spring on testing, but did not shoot it that long. Always had problems with 13 lb. and 8.5 lb one as well.) 3) reduced power firing pin spring 4) extended length firing pin Long firing pin had a significant affect on improving reliability of these primers. Ditto for 13 lb main spring. But I still had problems...... The 13 lb main spring with long firing pin worked best but had the heaviest trigger. Still had reliability issues with this set up. I now use Tula/Wolfe for practice but never for matches. Using Winchester (SR and SP), Federal, and CCI (SP and SR) primers I cannot recall more than 1 or 2 FTF issues in 30-40,000 rnds. Cannot shoot a 500 Tula or Wolfe w/io a large number of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 My FP measured 2.498" so I assume it's the extended one. Put the reduced pwr FP back in plus the 13# main spring so we'll see tomorrow morning ... Also loaded up 200 rds with CCIs for tomorrow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately everyone says that about everything ... Those primers are just $1 more, those bullets are just 1.5 cents more each, that hotel for the match is just $10 more per day, that gas station is just 3 cents more per gallon, etc, etc. Maybe it's the engineer in me but all those "little" extras add up to real money ... I refer to it as invisible money ....it's money you never really see because the amounts are small but it all adds up at the end of the year ... A silly, but relevant example is when I go out to lunch, which I do every day, 5 days a week. I used get an iced tea at lunch, $1.99 (now $2.19). No big deal right? It's just 2 bucks ... Well do the math and you'll discover that if you drink water every day for lunch instead you'll have saved $500 a year... The the price of a new gun ... I learned a long time ago that the little things actually do matter ... Sorry for the soap box but I hear all the time not to sweat the small stuff but I've come to realize that there are not many who shoot 25,000-30,000 rds a year so what is not a big deal to them turns out to be one for me .... Maybe it's the mathematician in me, but I found your problem. You go out to lunch every day, yet you worry about $1/day for primers. If you bring lunch 4 days a week , you'll save $2k/year, which will buy an azzload of primers, powder, lead and gas for your subcompact to travel to matches. Plus if you're not a terrible cook, you'll eat better and be healthier, and in my case I take a short lunch at work, so I can leave earlier, so I can spend more time shooting (or dirtbiking, or playing with my dogs, or brewing beer, or drinking home-brewed beer, or reloading, etc.....) What is your time worth? Sounds like you've spent a few hours (and probaby extra ammo, which has powder/lead costs as well) screwing around with reliable primer ignition. Edited January 30, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 it's all about what you place value on .... bringing my lunch to work every day is something I have zero interest in doing so the cost of eating out everyday has value to me and therefore I'm willing to spend money on it. I could also saver a boatload of money everyday by taking a bike to work vice a car and from a strictly math point of view it would be better but when you add in other variables like 'value' I go with the car even though in absolute terms it costs more. A couple hrs of mine time has value to me to be able to get my 'per bullet' price down as low as possible. The reason is simple; the overwhelming yearly expense for me at this point in my career is ammo so making this as low as possible is a priority. Once I make GM and routinely win Area matches and finish in the top 20 at Nationals and compete around the country my expense matrix will be different and the difference between 2.7 cents & 4.1 cents per rd may not be a big deal ... in fact I'm sure it won't be as I should b sponsored by then with some kind of ammo deal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I tried Tula primers during the primer shortage last year. I loaded about 500 of them......I had high primers, and several light strikes, so quit using them, and will never try them again. Too much hassle to save 5 dollars, and wonder every time I pulled the trigger, "whats going to happen this time?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 If it was really only 5 bucks I'd be right there with you but it's not, it's a $150/year ... Therefore it was worth it to see if I could use them for practice ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 If it was really only 5 bucks I'd be right there with you but it's not, it's a $150/year ... Therefore it was worth it to see if I could use them for practice ... Oh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well how did your primer test at the range go Friday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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