EricW Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 In the interest of keeping stuff together, I am splitting off of this thread to address getting the XD approved/disapproved for the IPSC Production gun list. In the interest of public disclosure, I spoke with Springfield Armory today. They confirmed that indeed the striker does rectract slightly upon actuating the trigger. The main issue for them is marketing and how they have described the trigger to potential customers as part of their marketing program. I'm hoping I've convinced them that giving IPSC a document(s) that demonstrate the XD/HS2000 should be technically classified a double action pistol is a *good* thing. We'll see what happens. Hopefully SA will see fit to do what's necessary to allow the XD into its rightful home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I'm a bit surprised SA did not call it DA, since that's a common bid requirement for governmental purchases. Any govt agency with the technical finnesse to desire a SA handgun isn't going to need the label to figure out what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 XD...those guns are UGLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 XD...those guns are UGLY. Hell, if being ugly was a disqualifying part of our criteria, there's a whole bunch of guns which wouldn't be approved by The Fab Five. Have you seen the IMI Barak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 XD...those guns are UGLY. Hell, if being ugly was a disqualifying part of our criteria, there's a whole bunch of guns which wouldn't be approved by The Fab Five. Have you seen the IMI Barak? My eyes! My EYES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 it wasn't too long ago that we all thought the GLOCK was ugly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 it wasn't too long ago that we all thought the GLOCK was ugly! Speak for yourself ........ the Glock has always been beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...sadly not in the eye of the majority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 it wasn't too long ago that we all thought the GLOCK was ugly! Speak for yourself ........ the Glock has always been beautiful. What do you mean, it is STILL UGLY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 damn vince, you werent kidding. That thing is hideous, like something I'd find behind door number 1 of a bad blind date. I have always thought the XD's and Glocks were gorgeous, if for no other reason than being the new girl in school. That barak thing would make an onion cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 They did not just hit that Barak with the ugly stick, more like: it fell outta the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Its grip reminds me of a garden hose's squirt nozzle & its topped off with a turd & they added a hunch-back just for good measure. I really like Israeli guns but its safe to say the Barak will not be my choice for Production division in '05. Now that Civilian Tavor that Barret was showing on the Barak site - that's a done deal for 3gun if it makes it to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 By the same arguement that the striker moves back, well the HK P7 should be let back in too. Besides the fact that you have to cock it before you can fire, you can see the striker move back before it is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I really don't want to rain on anyones parade ( ok, maybe a little ) but one of the disadvantages with the XD for IPSC Production is mag capacity. SA shows it as 15+1 for 9x19. Glock shows the G17 as 19+1. Since mag extensions are not allowed and the mags have to OEM equivalents, the XD is at a disadvantage, right ? That being said, I have a XD-40 and love the thing. One day I may actually shoot it at a match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It's actually 15 vs. 17, but, yeah, some might stay away because of the round count disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Reload a G17 then reload an XD and tell me what you want to show up for the party with. Yes, I know, Dave S. smokes his reloads, but the *average* person who doesn't invest as much practice time will progress much faster with the XD than the G17. I also have faith that some creative person will simply swell the sides of the XD mag and manage to stuff an extra round or two in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Production on a 10 round limit? Or is that just a regional thing? Like Canada and the US and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 10 round limit... USPSA vs IPSC IPSC.. there is no defined limit for Produciton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Reload a G17 then reload an XD and tell me what you want to show up for the party with. Yes, I know, Dave S. smokes his reloads, but the *average* person who doesn't invest as much practice time will progress much faster with the XD than the G17.I also have faith that some creative person will simply swell the sides of the XD mag and manage to stuff an extra round or two in there. I and many others were able to fit 15 rounds of 9 into a 10-round .40 mag... 17 rounds shouldn't be too far off without any real mods. As far as reloads go, I was and am faster with the Glock. For me, a Glock with a magwell is the fastest thing to reload... faster than an S_I. The angle is just right. I had an HS2000 that I ended up ditching, but I wouldn't mind trying a 9mm longslide... the longslide .40 I shot was awesome and I was hella fast on the plate rack with it (2.3x seconds @ 7yds from low ready). The awful reset and damn near impossibility of detail stripping turned me off, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 XD...those guns are UGLY. Hell, if being ugly was a disqualifying part of our criteria, there's a whole bunch of guns which wouldn't be approved by The Fab Five. Have you seen the IMI Barak? That picture is really doing a great injustice to the gun. It's really not that ugly up close. ...yeah, but still ugly nontheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 By the same arguement that the striker moves back, well the HK P7 should be let back in too. Besides the fact that you have to cock it before you can fire, you can see the striker move back before it is released. The P7 was the other gun which was originally approved but subsequently withdrawn from the approved gun list, after IPSC arrived at our own definition of single action and double action. Again, it really wouldn't bother me having the P7 approved but it would require us to modify our criteria. I'm not averse to doing so, but rewriting the criteria is easier said than done. In any case, I can't imagine there are many people who would want to shoot the P7 in IPSC competition. It's a fantastic gun for self defense, but it just doesn't cut it competitively (I know, because I used to own and shoot one). The P7 is also unique in more ways than just being a squeeze-cocker. For starters, it wouldn't pass the minimum 5lb trigger pull, and we're certainly not going to drop the trigger pull test just because one relatively obscure gun can't satisfy our testing procedure. The bottom line is that no matter how we cut it, some guns won't make the grade. Although the USPSA version of Production allows guns like the G34 to qualify, other Glocks such as the G17L and G24 are too long, hence it's just a matter of where you draw the line in the sand, and IPSC drew it a 5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 The 12 round .40 mags will hold 17 9mm in the XD. The triggers are no problem to get them to feel good. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaRacer Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Just my .02 but here's what I think. The XD is classed by most authorities as SAO and therefore does NOT meet the criteria for USPSA Production for: "No single action guns" "First shot must be double action" I'm also in favor of USPSA implimenting the 5 lb first shot trigger pull. If it was me I'd have the definition of a DA as the ability to re-strike with trigger pull, but that will never happen, so the 5lb trigger first pull would help level things out between the new striker design pistols and the traditional DA/SA pistols. Guess I'll have to run for cover now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 With that Glocks and LDA's would be gone. Sure hope your bunker can with stand a 1500 pounder. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 BerettaRacer- I'm also in favor of USPSA implimenting the 5 lb first shot trigger pull.If it was me I'd have the definition of a DA as the ability to re-strike with trigger pull, but that will never happen, so the 5lb trigger first pull would help level things out between the new striker design pistols and the traditional DA/SA pistols. Actually, I agree with you on a lot of this. Although the second hammer strike capability would eliminate the Para LDA. I would even go further and define DA as having an external hammer. That means no strikers allowed. Let them have their own new class of modified production to include the Glocks, P7s, and XDs. But the across the board 5lb min first trigger pull rule would be the simplest way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Off Topic Post Deleted. Ooops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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